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Old November 8th, 2008, 08:33 AM   #1
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Mormon and Catholic churches complain about being the target of Prop 8 protests

Mormon and Catholic churches complain about being the target of Prop 8 protests

Hypocrisy much? The Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter-day Saints is unhappy about the fact that the media spotlight is trained on its participation in making Prop 8 happen.



In an official statement on the church's web site, bearing false witness and hypocrisy is the order of the day.
It is disturbing that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is being singled out for speaking up as part of its democratic right in a free election.

Members of the Church in California and millions of others from every faith, ethnicity and political affiliation who voted for Proposition 8 exercised the most sacrosanct and individual rights in the United States - that of free expression and voting.

While those who disagree with our position on Proposition 8 have the right to make their feelings known, it is wrong to target the Church and its sacred places of worship for being part of the democratic process. Once again, we call on those involved in the debate over same-sex marriage to act in a spirit of mutual respect and civility towards each other. No one on either side of the question should be vilified, harassed or subject to erroneous information.

Bzzt. Wrong answer. The people protesting the church's significant role in an another state's democratic process -- members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints gave millions of dollars to remove the civil rights of human beings -- are merely exercising their right to free speech to highlight that role.

And what is this "erroneous information"? Who knows, the church doesn't say. The amount of hot air and vapid defensiveness from an institution that has a history of bigotry and oppression against black people has earned every second of this bad press brought on by this media exposure and demonstrations. That the Mormons have trained that bigotry onto gays and lesbians families only confirms that the LDS is what is erroneous and it is repeating that sorry history.

No one is telling the church and its membership not to believe whatever they want to believe about same-sex marriage, but they cannot foment discrimination and conflate church and state in their support of Proposition 8. The sole reason for backing the amendment is faith-based. That has nothing to do with civil law or government -- at least not in this country.



If the LDS can, in the minds of its followers, be inspired by God to take away the civil rights of people in another state, then gay and lesbian families (wouldn't they also be children of God, or they not human to the LDS?) and their supporters, inspired by the Constitution, can call for the boycott of the state of Utah, where this hate was fomented and bankrolled. Tourism brings in $6 billion a year to Utah -- the state government and businesses in your state will not look kindly upon this rogue mini-theocracy hitting the bottom line of the state coffers.

And the Catholic church is also lying boldly:
Meanwhile, the Roman Catholic Church was also a target for supporting Proposition 8. "Proposition 8 is not against any group in our society. Its sole focus is on preserving God's plan for people living upon this earth throughout time," Cardinal Roger Mahony, archbishop of the Diocese of Los Angeles, said in a statement Thursday.

WTF? Wait a minute. Prop 8 just removed an existing right from one specific group of people. There's no way to whitewash this. There's no spin that takes away the fact that religious institutions that backed Proposition 8 did so because of their faith -- interfering with the laws of California.



Those laws do not correspond to anything taught from a holy book, or answer to any supreme being these churches preach about.

These extremist statements and positions are nothing less than a call to establish a theocracy. Americans, regardless of their sexual orientation, should be moved to name this behavior of these institutions for what it is -- and question the tax-exempt status of these institutions.

Think of what the millions of dollars poured into California's Prop 8 effort could have done on to help the homeless, the working poor, the people suffering in the imploding economy. Instead, here we see professed people of faith turning a blind eye to the less fortunate to focus on obliterating the separation of church and state using bigotry. If it's bad PR for the churches, they brought it upon themselves.
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Old November 8th, 2008, 08:34 AM   #2
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You can see why that the local Episcopal diocese is not the target here, Cubbie. The Diocese was not in favor of Prop. 8. We widely advocated the defeat of prop. 8.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 02:51 AM   #3
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This means it's OK to conduct violent protests against Mormons now.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 04:19 AM   #4
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this has nothing to do with violence
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Old November 9th, 2008, 04:48 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin
this has nothing to do with violence
Why even protest them peacefully? Was is them that put Proposition 8 on the ballot?
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Old November 9th, 2008, 05:49 AM   #6
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It was "them" that practically financed the entire thing
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Old November 9th, 2008, 06:01 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin
It was "them" that practically financed the entire thing
OK. KILL them!!!!
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Old November 9th, 2008, 06:04 AM   #8
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Their magic pants advised them to put all their funds to stop those wild and crazy homosexuals from getting married. Screw those hungry people around the country and all those people going down on in thier homes...... MY MAGIC PANTIES TELL ME TO STOP THOSE HOMOSEXUALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU]YouTube - Magic mormon underwear[/ame]
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Old November 9th, 2008, 06:06 AM   #9
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmwiU0CAu6M"]YouTube - Holy Mormon Underwear[/ame]
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Old November 9th, 2008, 06:09 AM   #10
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Don't mess with the grannies, they don't wanna hear about your magic panties!!!



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caPKZz8wJ6A"]YouTube - Mormons make grannie upset[/ame]
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Old November 9th, 2008, 06:18 AM   #11
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Mormons Stole Our Rights: No Tax Exemption for Political Churches
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Old November 9th, 2008, 06:18 AM   #12
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I guess some people ought to start not hiring gay people and start yelling cool little epithets at every gay person they see. Or maybe a few Prop 8 supporters should go egg Steve Young's house. The hypocrisy in this place is such bullshit.

Even if the Mormons did give money, they didn't give it all nor were 52.5% of the state Mormon. Every single state that has had a referendum on this subject has supported it with one anomaly that has since been corrected. The "hatred" being focused on the Mormons is just a sign of HDS. Since "The Mormons" aren't the only ones that supported this. It's just the HDS has the gays looking for someone to blame. Wanna look a root of the problem? Why not look at the fact that same sex relationships were illegal not because of religious principles, but because it is just fundamentally unnatural for a human or any other mammal to have sex with anything that is not a sexually mature member of the opposite gender. Children, other species, picnic tables, anything.

Leave the Mormons alone.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 06:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxashun

Leave the Mormons alone.


no
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Old November 9th, 2008, 06:22 AM   #14
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The leadership of the LDS Church has their hand prints all over the campaigns in Arizona and California:

* We know Arizona state Senators who didn't want to be present for the vote to place Prop 102 on the ballot, but were coerced and harassed by their bishops and other church members into cutting short their vacations to cast their vote.

* Once on the ballot in California and Arizona, we know that Mormon prophets called on their followers to give of their "time and means," and that this call went out to all Mormons in California and Arizona, as well as in Utah.

* We also know that the Arizona anti-gay campaign was under the direct leadership of some of the most prominent LDS members in the state.

* By some estimates, more than $20 million of Mormon money went to fund the $36 million California campaign, while an additional estimated $3-7 million funded Arizona's $8 million campaign.

One thing must be made clear: the leadership of the LDS church has every right to do this. Churches are barred by IRS regulations from endorsing political candidates, but they are fully free to participate in the political process on the issues - including ballot propositions. To claim otherwise would be to deny the LDS Church's right to speak out on what it sees as important moral issues. It would also deny the rights of LDS members to fully participate in the democratic process.

But exercising those rights in the democratic process brings with it public scrutiny and criticism. That, too, is an integral part of the democratic process from which no one is exempt.

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Old November 9th, 2008, 06:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensacola_niceman
OK. KILL them!!!!


nah



just take away their tax exempt status



then they can be a lobbying organization like any other
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Old November 9th, 2008, 07:16 AM   #16
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It's one of those odd twists that leaders of the Mormon Church probably never saw coming. Whenever opponents of Proposition 8, the ballot measure that now eliminates the right of gay and lesbians to legally marry in California, protest outside a Mormon temple, they effectively stop church members from getting married, according Levi Jackman Foster, an ex-Mormon who lives in West Hollywood. ..."A temple is the only place (Mormons) can get married," Foster says, "if they want to get sealed to God...Whenever protesters show up they close the gates (at the temple) so no one get in. It becomes a convent where no one can get married."

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Old November 9th, 2008, 08:12 AM   #17
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And again, many of the donations were from private citizens. The same citizens who did the voting. Maybe when gay marriages are allowed, people should egg UCC and Episco churches.

Or even courthouses since that who seem to be the ones allowing it in all cases.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 11:36 AM   #18
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As Americans we don't protest when citizens are given rights - protests happen when rights are taken away.



D'uh



(and progressive churches HAVE been vandalized, set afire, etc.)
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Old November 9th, 2008, 11:47 AM   #19
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Churches were egged? Where?
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Old November 9th, 2008, 01:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin
As Americans we don't protest when citizens are given rights - protests happen when rights are taken away.



D'uh


And others protest when rights are stolen from We The People.



The ballot was perfectly legal and consistent with the democratic process, as defined by the CA Constitution.



Had the Pro-homosexual marriage side won, no doubt they would feel indignant if we tried to undermine their victory.



The point is that homosexuals have still not won their argument that homosexual behaviour is normal, ot that a homosexual couple is no different from a heterosexual couple.

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