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Old October 17th, 2017, 03:19 PM   #71
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Yes they study and marvel at Gods creation!
And biologists have the highest rate of atheism among scientists, and scientists have a very high rate of atheism.

The more you know, the less it seems like a miracle.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 04:34 PM   #72
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The universality of the golden rule or reverse golden rule (don't do onto other what you don't want done onto you) is simple logic, not needing some universal entity as a source.
Your golden rule comes from the teachings of Christ, someone didn't just one day make it up and then it somehow became universal.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 05:00 PM   #73
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Your golden rule comes from the teachings of Christ, someone didn't just one day make it up and then it somehow became universal.
There are variations of that rule in Hindu teachings and also China as well as others that predate Christ. So I don't think so.

Quote:
Ancient Egypt.- circa 2000 BCE “Do for one who may do for you, That you may cause him thus to do.” – The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant 109-110,

Hebrew Bible – circa 700 BCE “You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your countrymen. Love your fellow as yourself: I am the LORD.”

Zoroastrianism.- circa 600 BCE “That nature only is good when it shall not do unto another whatever is not good for its own self.” – Dadistan-i-Dinik 94:5,

Buddhism.- circa 500 BCE “Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.” – Udana-Varga 5:18,

Confucianism.- circa 500 BCE “What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.” Analects of Confucius 15:24,

Socrates.- circa 400 BCE “Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others.”
Who first invented the golden rule? : Dangerous Intersection with more links imbedded.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 05:35 PM   #74
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There are variations of that rule in Hindu teachings and also China as well as others that predate Christ. So I don't think so.



Who first invented the golden rule? : Dangerous Intersection with more links imbedded.
Interesting.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #75
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You seem to have been fortunate. Among my peers and my children's peers, the number of "families" where home was a war zone was oh so very far from a good environment for the children to grow up in.
Agreed, and the peace in some families isn't peace at all.

Sad and true, for as long as the child's parents are alive, the child suffers, and afterwards too.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 07:58 PM   #76
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Religion is a silly thing to argue over. Your spiritual life is between you and whatever god(s) you worship, or lack thereof. As long as you have peace in your inner and outer life then who am I to tell you that you're wrong?

To answer your question, though: Yes.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 09:04 PM   #77
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Is God real. Well, you misspelled it.
Its KEK
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Old October 18th, 2017, 01:42 AM   #78
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For myself, I believe that some entity or entities, or different groups of entities created the Universe eons ago. This was the core beliefs of all people, that we had to come from somewhere and from that, theologies were created, stories made and books written.

I do not believe in religion and do not like religion very much. I was blessed ironically from living in a fairly secular household. My mother shopped around for a religion, my father was irreligious, and I sort of shopped for a religion myself when I was younger, and have had an interest in religions since I was a child.

I think I have a middle view of a straight atheist and a Bible or Koran thumper. Something did not come from nothing, but then again, show me nothing. This all comes from the fear of death. I cannot imagine not existing. I wont imagine it because I wont exist. This is something that everyone cannot conceptualize, just NOT EXISTING. Of course we will exist, they say and we say.

There is an internet/local call in show from Austin Texas called "Atheist Experience" which I enjoy watching (or listening to as background noise). The head guy is named Matt Dillahunty and he has a round table of assistant hosts, all of them excellent in defending secularism. They pretty much say that the religious and the believers of a God have to prove to them there is a God, but one cannot prove what doesn't exist. Prove a Bigfoot doesnt exist. I cannot although I know Bigfoot is Bullshit. May not be bullshit though, because people have claimed to have seen one. So do I put my faith in that? Faith is basically wishful thinking.

Creator beings probably everything. May be not, beyond my paygrade. I like Jesus some, but there are so many different denominations and whatnot and they will all say that all the other denominations are wrong. Life is too short and not worth the effort.
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Old October 18th, 2017, 03:21 AM   #79
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And biologists have the highest rate of atheism among scientists, and scientists have a very high rate of atheism.

The more you know, the less it seems like a miracle.
And God knew you would say that and the Bible says this.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
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Old October 18th, 2017, 03:16 PM   #80
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Ancient Egypt.- circa 2000 BCE “Do for one who may do for you, That you may cause him thus to do.” – The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant 109-110,
Hebrew Bible – circa 700 BCE “You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your countrymen. Love your fellow as yourself: I am the LORD.”
Zoroastrianism.- circa 600 BCE “That nature only is good when it shall not do unto another whatever is not good for its own self.” – Dadistan-i-Dinik 94:5,
Buddhism.- circa 500 BCE “Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.” – Udana-Varga 5:18,
Confucianism.- circa 500 BCE “What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.” Analects of Confucius 15:24,
Socrates.- circa 400 BCE “Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others.”
Well... lets take a closer look at these. 1) The Eloquent Peasant is a fictitious story that emerged during Egypt's 1st Intermediate Period, when the country was somewhat in a state of chaos. The moral of the story is civil justice, not unrequited kindness for kindness' sake, so it kind of misses the point.
2) The Hebrew Bible quote is from Leviticus, which was part of the Levitical Law given to Moses by... wait for it... Jehovah. That was my point to begin with. Even so, the rule was against taking matters of retribution into your own hands. It was given to avert lawlessness, not to invoke kindness. Christ simplified it to 2 basic rules: Love God, and Love one another. If you do that, he said, you will have fulfilled the whole purpose of law to begin with.
3) Zoroaster was a Persian philosopher who borrowed heavily from the Hebrew law, teaching a yin-and-yang type of cosmic retribution that befalls those who commit bad deeds. In essence, we should choose good deeds over bad ones so that the universe doesn't punish us, not out of love for our neighbor while expecting nothing in return. If we do that, he believed, we would move closer to being one with the creator, ie. God. So we come full circle to what I already said.
4) Siddhartha/Buddha taught 4 noble truths about ridding oneself of anger and misery by ridding oneself of all human desires. One does this by following the 8-fold path. In the end one can attain peace in the world and with the people around him. But Christ did not teach us to shed all personal desires, rather to change our desires to seek what is better and more helpful for those around us. It is not asceticism and self-immolation, but self-sacrifice for the benefit of others.
5) Confucius in his Analects was interested in civil order for the benefit of the state, not self-sacrifice.
6) Socrates of course didn't write anything. Plato did in his Dialogues. If you could give me the exact citation for this quote I would like to look at it more closely.

Bottom line, much of these are derived from a sense of responsibility to some form of higher power, often to avoid punishment or some form of Karma. Christ as far as I know is the only one who taught self-sacrifice for the benefit of others and not to get something in return, which has been twisted into a "golden rule", a sort of social grace that is not actually found in the Bible.

Nevertheless RNG I see your point.
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