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View Poll Results: Do Our Societies Tend to Suffer from an Excess of Democracy or Too Little Democracy?
Excess of Democracy 2 66.67%
Too Little Democracy 1 33.33%
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 30th, 2017, 07:31 AM   #1
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Crisis of Democracy

Crisis of Democracy

The Crisis of Democracy was authored by the Tri-Lateral Commission who were elite liberal intellectual internationals from the US, Europe, and Japan in the early 1970's. In it, they argued that there is an excess of Democracy and need to find ways of pushing back against the new wave of public opinion from the lower formerly disenfranchised classes. In their view (very similar to that of Socrates in The Republic) is that these lower classes are unfit to make rational decisions about society that will effect all of us (not just them) and therefore should be politically/socially disenfranchised because they are bound to make all sorts wrong decisions that any sensible person/society understands that the higher classes are best fit to make all of these decisions. In The Crisis of Democracy, they made an argument that there is becoming a serious problem with over-education amongst the populace that was newly occurring (in the early 1970's onward). Their reasoning was now that more people are getting Undergrad. level degrees, as well as Masters level, ect. that these lower classes that in truth do not possess the same high level intellect/education that the higher classes (i.e. the elite Liberal intellectuals and possibly some elite intellectuals on the right as well but that point is unclear in their writing)) and that the *lower classes* should in no way be given the false impression that they (even though they are becoming notably more educated) are as qualified to make serious decisions (i.e. engage in the political process) that the elites are (i.e. the Elites should be making the rules, so to speak). Thus, the *"Crisis of Democracy" is that political activism is leading to *too many* people being involved in the political process and this needs to be pushed back against in order to maintain a more stable, healthy, productive system.

I would also highly recommend reading the Crisis of Democracy as well as it is in many ways a softer modern day parallel to the type of thinking seen in Plato's Republic. Here is a link to the Crisis of Democracy: http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis ofdemocracy.pdf

What do you think? Do our modern societies tend to suffer from an "Excess in Democracy" or is there Too Little Democracy?
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Old December 30th, 2017, 08:27 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by xMathFanx View Post
Crisis of Democracy

The Crisis of Democracy was authored by the Tri-Lateral Commission who were elite liberal intellectual internationals from the US, Europe, and Japan in the early 1970's. In it, they argued that there is an excess of Democracy and need to find ways of pushing back against the new wave of public opinion from the lower formerly disenfranchised classes. In their view (very similar to that of Socrates in The Republic) is that these lower classes are unfit to make rational decisions about society that will effect all of us (not just them) and therefore should be politically/socially disenfranchised because they are bound to make all sorts wrong decisions that any sensible person/society understands that the higher classes are best fit to make all of these decisions. In The Crisis of Democracy, they made an argument that there is becoming a serious problem with over-education amongst the populace that was newly occurring (in the early 1970's onward). Their reasoning was now that more people are getting Undergrad. level degrees, as well as Masters level, ect. that these lower classes that in truth do not possess the same high level intellect/education that the higher classes (i.e. the elite Liberal intellectuals and possibly some elite intellectuals on the right as well but that point is unclear in their writing)) and that the *lower classes* should in no way be given the false impression that they (even though they are becoming notably more educated) are as qualified to make serious decisions (i.e. engage in the political process) that the elites are (i.e. the Elites should be making the rules, so to speak). Thus, the *"Crisis of Democracy" is that political activism is leading to *too many* people being involved in the political process and this needs to be pushed back against in order to maintain a more stable, healthy, productive system.

I would also highly recommend reading the Crisis of Democracy as well as it is in many ways a softer modern day parallel to the type of thinking seen in Plato's Republic. Here is a link to the Crisis of Democracy: http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis ofdemocracy.pdf

What do you think? Do our modern societies tend to suffer from an "Excess in Democracy" or is there Too Little Democracy?
You just described elitism. You are a very interesting member thus far. What you described in my opinion is the argument of who should be allowed to vote. Some people say only property owners, some would demand a certain educatio requirement. Or, perhaps you could look at it as who you would not allow to vote. To merely ask to little or to much Democracy brings in another side as well. Such as the electoral college. The left would hold that the electoral college is bad and would prefer a mob rule (I suspect that had the electoral college went the other way for Hillary, and the popular vote for Trump, we would have certainly never heard a word about it.) A republican form of government makes sense because it attempts to allow a Democratic process while allowing the minority to not be subjugated by mob rule.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 12:30 PM   #3
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The crisis in democracy presently occurs when elected representatives ignore the will of those who elected them, presumably because the elected representatives "know better" than the electorate as to what the electorate really needs.

The tax bill is a prime and present example. The ACA in the form passed is another prime example.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 03:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The crisis in democracy presently occurs when elected representatives ignore the will of those who elected them, presumably because the elected representatives "know better" than the electorate as to what the electorate really needs.

The tax bill is a prime and present example. The ACA in the form passed is another prime example.
I use to agree with that 100%. I do not anymore. Actually I think we should be electing leaders instead of yes men. A yes man does just what you said. The elected official looks out at his electorate and votes according to whatever he perceives they want. Pretty easy. Its being a yes man. A leader tries to do that. At the end of the day a leader will do what they feel is best for their electorate. I now try to vote for those who I feel are the best leaders. That is who I want to represent me.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 06:08 PM   #5
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I use to agree with that 100%. I do not anymore. Actually I think we should be electing leaders instead of yes men. A yes man does just what you said. The elected official looks out at his electorate and votes according to whatever he perceives they want. Pretty easy. Its being a yes man. A leader tries to do that. At the end of the day a leader will do what they feel is best for their electorate. I now try to vote for those who I feel are the best leaders. That is who I want to represent me.
You've been defeated. You and the Founders are polar opposites.

But, your post is a contradiction.

You put down those who would represent their constituents, and close by saying you want people who represent you.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 08:48 PM   #6
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I use to agree with that 100%. I do not anymore. Actually I think we should be electing leaders instead of yes men. A yes man does just what you said. The elected official looks out at his electorate and votes according to whatever he perceives they want. Pretty easy. Its being a yes man. A leader tries to do that. At the end of the day a leader will do what they feel is best for their electorate. I now try to vote for those who I feel are the best leaders. That is who I want to represent me.
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
You've been defeated. You and the Founders are polar opposites.

But, your post is a contradiction.

You put down those who would represent their constituents, and close by saying you want people who represent you.
How is it a contradiction? I can point to example after example of what you want. Lets just start with bringing home the pork. That is what your idea of representation is. Its great for a few, but not so great for the many. You obviously do not understand the concept of what a leader is
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Old December 30th, 2017, 09:57 PM   #7
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How is it a contradiction? I can point to example after example of what you want. Lets just start with bringing home the pork. That is what your idea of representation is. Its great for a few, but not so great for the many. You obviously do not understand the concept of what a leader is
The crisis in democracy presently occurs when elected representatives ignore the will of those who elected them, presumably because the elected representatives "know better" than the electorate as to what the electorate really needs.

The tax bill is an example. The ACA in the form passed is another example.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 10:44 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The crisis in democracy presently occurs when elected representatives ignore the will of those who elected them, presumably because the elected representatives "know better" than the electorate as to what the electorate really needs.

The tax bill is an example. The ACA in the form passed is another example.
The electorate wants what is best for them. Often times the will of the electorate is the right thing to do. Often times its not. A leader understands this.
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Old December 30th, 2017, 10:49 PM   #9
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After months of lies from the Dems and their pals in the MSM about the tax bill people were wavering. Support for the tax bill will only increase once the IRS fixes the withholding schedules. Sorry, the comp with the ACA is more Dem and MSM propaganda.
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