Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Opinion Polls

Opinion Polls Political Opinion Polls - Polls created by the community


View Poll Results: Is a "Free Market" System Sensible?
Yes 9 52.94%
No 6 35.29%
Other 2 11.76%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

Thanks Tree71Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 6th, 2018, 08:24 AM   #131
Senior Member
 
justoneman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: chicago
Posts: 4,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
You are seriously so clueless as to think he believes the employer should make NO PROFITS??? Did you or did you not use the term "NO PROFIT" in your post?
I get so tired of you people "pretending" to be as dumb as houseplants.
He says that the profits are stealing from the excess value of the worker. So yes if he terms it "stealing" then one must infer that he thinks that the profit taking is bad like "stealing". "stealing" $1 or "stealing" $1000 is still "stealing". So from what he says, any profit is "stealing".
justoneman is offline  
Old January 6th, 2018, 09:50 AM   #132
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
What I am saying is its not my business what an owner of a football team pays a player. Its also not my business what a person gets from a a parent when the parent dies. You are clearly bothered by someone inheriting money. Probably all of your feelings can be summed up by one word. Jealousy.
How do you build an aristocracy? Allow the unencumbered accumulation and transfer of wealth from one generation to the next.
right to left is offline  
Old January 6th, 2018, 09:54 AM   #133
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
He says that the profits are stealing from the excess value of the worker. So yes if he terms it "stealing" then one must infer that he thinks that the profit taking is bad like "stealing". "stealing" $1 or "stealing" $1000 is still "stealing". So from what he says, any profit is "stealing".
Marx's concept of "surplus value of labor" was intended to drive the point home that capitalists make their money from the work performed by other people. If you want to justify it, go ahead! But, your ideology wants absolutely no limits on the level of surplus value a capitalist can extract....even when it's a capitalist whose surged way past the 100 billion mark and on his way to a trillion in a decade or so at present rate! And why should any sane society allow this concentration of wealth, even if they insist on having a mixed economy?
right to left is offline  
Old January 6th, 2018, 10:03 AM   #134
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
How would you go about achieving and maintaining that system?

IMO the main issue is government interference and to achieve that you would need to confiscate the means of production by force and continuously use that force in order to keep the means of production running that way. This would require a strong state and lots and lots of government intervention. Right now we just have fascism light and have for decades. But i could be just not seeing it n
When I was living and working in the US(a long time ago now)the sheet metal fabricating division of a large steel company I worked for, announced that they had determined the plant was too unprofitable to maintain and were intending to close the plant down in a year and sell off its assets. We weren't aware that it was the victim of a leveraged buy-out and wanted to parcel up and sell off every division regardless. But senior employees..in their 40's and 50's, had a lot at stake in their workplace and went through a lot of hoops to try to sell the idea of buying it out as a worker cooperative...including using their homes to raise the money...but it all fell through because no level of local or state government was willing to help such a venture that large corporations do not want. In retrospect, it's a good thing the coop idea fell through, because these guys would have lost everything once all of the WTO, FTA-NAFTA crap got rolling eventually and most American manufacturing was subject to outsourcing.

So, let's say that job one would be to overthrow the corporate-sponsored government in a way that England has a chance to do some time later this year and install a government for the people that will represent the aspirations of the majority of people. Doesn't mean it will necessarily happen! Jeremy Corbyn has enemies all over the place, but at least they have a chance that few other declining capitalist nations have today.
right to left is offline  
Old January 6th, 2018, 10:06 AM   #135
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
What I am saying is its not my business what an owner of a football team pays a player. Its also not my business what a person gets from a a parent when the parent dies. You are clearly bothered by someone inheriting money. Probably all of your feelings can be summed up by one word. Jealousy.
Do you have any idea how much money city, county and state governments spend on stadiums and all kiinds of free stuff that these football team owners profit from?
*also worth noting that the reason why the Green Bay Packers are the only publicly owned NFL club is because it was created before the NFL set rules that only allow private ownership of teams.
right to left is offline  
Old January 6th, 2018, 11:26 AM   #136
Senior Member
 
justoneman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: chicago
Posts: 4,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Marx's concept of "surplus value of labor" was intended to drive the point home that capitalists make their money from the work performed by other people. If you want to justify it, go ahead! But, your ideology wants absolutely no limits on the level of surplus value a capitalist can extract....even when it's a capitalist whose surged way past the 100 billion mark and on his way to a trillion in a decade or so at present rate! And why should any sane society allow this concentration of wealth, even if they insist on having a mixed economy?
So lets say you get your wish and congress makes into law some mechanism to compensate the workers with additional funding,, either by increased pay or another means, and the owner of this business with a major reduction in profits, decides he no longer wishes to be in business and wishes to close the business, can he sell it in part and parcel to someone else? Can he just go out of business and take whatever money he can from his business? Can he take his money from this closed business to another country where he wishes to move?
Thanks from TNVolunteer73 and Sabcat
justoneman is offline  
Old January 6th, 2018, 11:30 AM   #137
Senior Member
 
guy39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Kekistan
Posts: 4,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
So lets say you get your wish and congress makes into law some mechanism to compensate the workers with additional funding,, either by increased pay or another means, and the owner of this business with a major reduction in profits, decides he no longer wishes to be in business and wishes to close the business, can he sell it in part and parcel to someone else? Can he just go out of business and take whatever money he can from his business? Can he take his money from this closed business to another country where he wishes to move?
That is not the goal. The goal is for there to be no more owners or private business. Either the state owns and controls it or the workers own it like a co-op. The pesky details of confiscating property is just a mere side story

Shadilay,
KeK be upon thee
Thanks from Sabcat
guy39 is offline  
Old January 6th, 2018, 01:46 PM   #138
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 36,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Do you have any idea how much money city, county and state governments spend on stadiums and all kiinds of free stuff that these football team owners profit from?
*also worth noting that the reason why the Green Bay Packers are the only publicly owned NFL club is because it was created before the NFL set rules that only allow private ownership of teams.
It is the only publicly owned team because after Green Bay purchased the team, had this become the trend they NFL could not hold the cities hostage, or move the teams.
TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old January 7th, 2018, 09:01 PM   #139
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by justoneman View Post
So lets say you get your wish and congress makes into law some mechanism to compensate the workers with additional funding,, either by increased pay or another means, and the owner of this business with a major reduction in profits, decides he no longer wishes to be in business and wishes to close the business, can he sell it in part and parcel to someone else?
He can't do that now?
Quote:
Can he just go out of business and take whatever money he can from his business?
Same answer! And this is the luxury that the business owner has over the worker, even where workers are organized and part of a union. When it comes to a strike/or a lockout, the company can wait indefinitely for the terms and conditions they want, while the workers are bankrupt and in financial ruin if a strike goes on for more than two or three months! That's been backstory behind the decades-long slide in wages, benefits and working conditions, as the company can threaten to close down and outsource their operations, while the same ownership can usually make more money outsourcing production to China, Mexico, Indonesia etc.. In many examples, management demanded cuts in wages and benefits and still outsource to wherever they can get people to work for next to nothing!
Quote:
Can he take his money from this closed business to another country where he wishes to move?
You didn't already know the answer to this? And he can expect to take advantage of an amnesty on unreported foreign bank holdings offered up every few years by the federal government to repatriate those earnings without risking tax evasion charges.
right to left is offline  
Old January 7th, 2018, 09:26 PM   #140
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,603
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy39 View Post
That is not the goal. The goal is for there to be no more owners or private business.
That would be my goal!
Quote:
Either the state owns and controls it or the workers own it like a co-op. The pesky details of confiscating property is just a mere side story

Shadilay,
KeK be upon thee
Now I'm wondering if you're some spoiled trust fund baby like the Prez! I would first reverse the privatization trend that has turned utilities and public services over to for-profit corporations. Any operation providing water, waste removal, electricity etc. has a guaranteed monopoly and can set prices at any level they like...usually the price level that provides them maximum profits.

Then, let's take a look at some of the new dotcom industries that have created multibillionaires of the owners, while the infrastructure they have used to harvest our information for profit, was first provided by research labs at public universities, and later by the Defense Department's DARPA and ARPANET programs, which turned into the forerunner of the internet.

Now, those free tools that put together the internet and made billionaires of those owning companies that created virtual monopolies of social media(Facebook), search engine(Google) and online marketing(Amazon) should not be allowed to keep earning billions from the rest of us. Time to turn these monopoly businesses into public corporations also!
right to left is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Opinion Polls

Tags
free market, system



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Free speech" no longer free anymore? Or... Panther Education 125 November 26th, 2017 08:56 AM
German police in Cologne "protect" christmas market with mp5's without magazines Beasty Political Humor 2 December 23rd, 2016 04:22 AM
More Evidence Of Wage Theft In A "Free Market" (snick) Camelot Current Events 4 April 30th, 2014 09:34 AM
Did bill get "I have to do something big" out of Obama's system? leighredf Healthcare 56 March 23rd, 2010 07:51 PM
"I wouldn't call that a broken system." aMFliberal Crime and Punishment 24 February 12th, 2006 07:06 PM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.