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View Poll Results: Should the president have an unlimited power to grant pardons?
Yes 6 46.15%
No 7 53.85%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 15th, 2018, 06:46 AM   #1
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Should the president have the power to pardon anyone for anything?

The power to pardon anyone for anything, except impeachment, was given to the president by Article 2, Section 2:

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.


I'm puzzled as to why the Founders gave this power to the president. I think it's a bad idea.

You?
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Old April 15th, 2018, 06:49 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The power to pardon anyone for anything, except impeachment, was given to the president by Article 2, Section 2:

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.


I'm puzzled as to why the Founders gave this power to the president. I think it's a bad idea.

You?
It’s the attempt to give the executive branch a check against the power of the judicial branch.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 06:54 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
It’s the attempt to give the executive branch a check against the power of the judicial branch.
Thanks. I can see that, but disagree with the rationale of vesting that much plenary power in one person.

Some folks rant endlessly on "legislating from the bench, but we've seen over the last four presidencies at least has been the president walking all over the Constitution.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 07:07 AM   #4
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To be honest I don’t think the Founding Fathers could have foreseen presidents like Trump or Nixon. And, especially in the case of Trump, a spineless Congress like we have now.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 07:11 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
It’s the attempt to give the executive branch a check against the power of the judicial branch.
The complete circle of checks and balances.

The problem being if the Legislative branch doesn't put any checks on the Executive, as we are experiencing now.

It would seem we need another cog in the checks and balances wheel.

This would be a good conversation piece as to what that might be.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 07:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
To be honest I don’t think the Founding Fathers could have foreseen presidents like Trump or Nixon. And, especially in the case of Trump, a spineless Congress like we have now.

Garrett Epps wrote a column for the Atlantic years ago and said this:"....we should reserve some blame for the Founding Fathers, who created a presidential office that is ill-considered, vaguely defined, and ripe for abuse."

What we have now is a "runaway president"--someone who can't be reigned in by Congress--an ignorant businessman with the morals/ethics and management style of an egomaniac.
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Old April 15th, 2018, 07:53 AM   #7
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DIY: Gird up your loins

What I remember is that the Founding Fathers deliberately created a fairly weak Executive branch. They were concerned that in war time, the president could act much more forcefully & decisively than the Legislative, & the Judicial branch was more of a long-term influence on government & the country.

The Executive was more sharply focused than Legislative, being mostly the triumphing party in the national elections. This become more true when the custom of electing the candidate with the most votes the presidency, & the runner-up with the VP was discontinued. There was a chance for some factional maneuvering in the first case - once the ticket (president & VP) was elected together, the chances for factions became much less.

Wilson advanced the Executive sharply - in the run-up to WWI & also the power that accrued to the Executive in the Red Scare, union-bashing, a general concern about Socialists, anarchists, Communists, & etc.

"For more than 100 years, from the expiration of the Sedition Act of 1798 until America’s entry into World War I, the United States had no federal legislation banning rebellious expression. The War of 1812, the Mexican War, the Civil War and the Spanish-American War all were fought without criminalizing the right of dissent.

"It was Woodrow Wilson, shortly after his re-election in 1916 but well before America’s entry into World War I, who sought legislation to suppress disloyalty. Wilson requested that Congress give the president absolute authority to censor the press in the event of war, to make it a federal crime to promote the success of America’s enemies and to close the mail to any material deemed “of a treasonable or anarchistic character.” Wilson insisted that the power he requested was “absolutely necessary to the public safety.” After America entered the war, Congress passed the Espionage Act of 1917, which incorporated much of what Wilson asked for but not the authority to censor the press."

From
https://campaigningforhistory.blogs....er-in-wartime/

(My emphasis - more @ the URL)

A wartime president is a fearsome thing - especially since the end of WWII, as Congress as an institution appears to have suffered a radical spinectomy.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 10:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skews13 View Post
The complete circle of checks and balances.

The problem being if the Legislative branch doesn't put any checks on the Executive, as we are experiencing now.

It would seem we need another cog in the checks and balances wheel.

This would be a good conversation piece as to what that might be.
The Fourth Estate, the press, the media, is the fourth cog.

Thus, it's no wonder why our malignant executive branch, Trump and cast, has non-stop hammered the evil, wicked, mean, and nasty, "fake news" press.
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Old April 20th, 2018, 04:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The power to pardon anyone for anything, except impeachment, was given to the president by Article 2, Section 2:

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.


I'm puzzled as to why the Founders gave this power to the president. I think it's a bad idea.

You?
They don't have the power to pardon anyone for anything.

1. they cannot pardon anyone involved in and impeachment cases

That is why Bill Clinton did not pardon the McDougles.
2. They cannot pardon anyone for State Crimes.
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Old April 29th, 2018, 07:24 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
To be honest I don’t think the Founding Fathers could have foreseen presidents like Trump or Nixon. And, especially in the case of Trump, a spineless Congress like we have now.
This form of the conservative party is done , they will do what they can to hold on as long as possible, with the hope that somehow the browning of American population although being shit on by this party for decades, somehow can be turned around to support the people who clearly see them as less then, That won't happen. So the right will continue to sell out this country to retain political position, supporting the worst most evil man of hate that has ever sat in the office of the president.
With demographic , they had 3 decades at the most with their scum bag leader one should do it.
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