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Old October 24th, 2011, 08:57 AM   #1
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Strictly common sense..
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Old October 24th, 2011, 09:35 AM   #2
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A chapter out of "Atlas Shrugged," which is quite popular with all of the survivalists whom I know.



To equate "self interest" with "greed" seems fundamentally incorrect. It's a fine alibi for being greedy. It salves the consciences of the greedy, the fearful.



The current sorry state of the world isn't attributable to altruism or any manifestation of humanity's higher expressions. It's attributable to greed.



THAT is common sense, only common sense isn't common.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 03:31 PM   #3
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We are a nation, the majority of which consists of greedy and selfish people. People making $50k a year wondering why they can't afford that $500k house they bought. Too many of us are jealous (or at least selectively jealous) of those who are more successful (the "bash the rich" crowd seems to excuse Steve Jobs, Hollywood's elite, and athletes from their bashing). We have too much personal debt because most of us cannot do without a best cars, the electronics, etc. Worst, the government creates laws and programs to appeal to our greed and no one wants the programs that benefits them to be cut or cancelled - even if we go broke in the process.



Occupy Wall Street is the biggest joke of all. "I elected to get a student loan to finance college and now I can't pay it back." Hey, it is called life. Some of us earned our way through college. No one makes you get a student loan. They don't want to buy tents and supplies because that is "contributing to capitalism." They have no compunction against mooching tents and supplies from those who participate in the capitalist system. Then, you have Alec Baldwin, spokesman for CapitalOne, down at the protest. What a joke!
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Old October 24th, 2011, 03:55 PM   #4
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Don't buy a $500K house....duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 12:08 PM   #5
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"Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A." Gordon Gekko



Yes, I can see where greed can have a VERY negative connotation, but we must realize that there are two different types of greed--one that is disgusting and can lead to millions of people losing their jobs and another that allows individuals to pursue their own goals. This country is in shambles because this country has too many regulations and government funded welfare programs that have effectively created a generation's worth of citizens that just don't care because they know that the government will take care of them no matter what they do. It's not that we are too greedy, it's that we aren't greedy enough. Any successful individual is greedy, and it is characterized by insatiable desires to succeed, doing whatever it takes to achieve goals (included but not limited to excessive working), and putting themselves altruistically first.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 01:07 PM   #6
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That's just not true. There are many successful people that are not greedy. It is not a positive quality that should be touted as a plus. It shows a low character to see people suffering that are hungry and to be too greedy to share your food. In fact, that would be the height of immorality. And certainly it flies in the face of every major religious value to be found, in any faith.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 05:06 PM   #7
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It shows a low character to see people suffering that are hungry and to be too greedy to share your food. In fact, that would be the height of immorality.


You are referring to the negative greed. Remember, there are 2 types of greed.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 05:22 PM   #8
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And all of your points are completely and totally ideological theories, much of which have never been tried, and that which has been done, has failed.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 06:07 PM   #9
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Greed is only good if one redefines greed from its traditional meaning. I am sure that if enough people wish to do so, the word will be redefined since that is how the evolution of language works.



But then what word are we going to use to mean "an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth"?
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Old October 25th, 2011, 06:08 PM   #10
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It shows a low character to see people suffering that are hungry and to be too greedy to share your food. In fact, that would be the height of immorality.


You are referring to the negative greed. Remember, there are 2 types of greed.
No, I did not know that. Nor do I believe that.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 06:10 PM   #11
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That's just not true. There are many successful people that are not greedy. It is not a positive quality that should be touted as a plus. It shows a low character to see people suffering that are hungry and to be too greedy to share your food. In fact, that would be the height of immorality. And certainly it flies in the fact of every major religious value to be found, in any faith.
I have always thought that success was based on the desire to achieve. Now I hear that it is based on "greed." Go figure.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 07:46 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by waitingtables View Post
That's just not true. There are many successful people that are not greedy. It is not a positive quality that should be touted as a plus. It shows a low character to see people suffering that are hungry and to be too greedy to share your food. In fact, that would be the height of immorality. And certainly it flies in the fact of every major religious value to be found, in any faith.


Greed and self-interest aren't the same.



I have a good friend who believes in the Atlas Shrugged definition of greed. He's got tons of food, tons of fuel, and tons of ammo. I ask him often: When the big crash comes, will you move the bodies of those you have to shoot, or let them remain in the yard. His last answer was: I think I'll have to move them because after a while they'd smell bad.



And he was dead serious.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 04:47 AM   #13
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Perhaps the greed I'm referring to will gain more support if I refer to it as ambition instead. This ambition (greed) is the oil of the entrepreneurial engine, as crass as that may sound. It's what drove people to dig for gold, which in turn led to the development of California. It's what made Texas the oil capitol of the country. It's what built the computer age and the internet. A dream of success with limited government intrusion--that's what makes America a beacon to the world.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:22 AM   #14
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Perhaps the greed I'm referring to will gain more support if I refer to it as ambition instead. This ambition (greed) is the oil of the entrepreneurial engine, as crass as that may sound. It's what drove people to dig for gold, which in turn led to the development of California. It's what made Texas the oil capitol of the country. It's what built the computer age and the internet. A dream of success with limited government intrusion--that's what makes America a beacon to the world.
Ambition and greed are not the same thing. One can, of course, choose to redefine words if one has enough support. But greed, in its generally accepted sense, will never be a good thing. It is immoral and destructive.



Again, I ask, if we redefine the word, greed, what word will then mean "an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth"?
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Old October 26th, 2011, 06:47 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by borden123' timestamp='1319633233' post='363987

Perhaps the greed I'm referring to will gain more support if I refer to it as ambition instead. This ambition (greed) is the oil of the entrepreneurial engine, as crass as that may sound. It's what drove people to dig for gold, which in turn led to the development of California. It's what made Texas the oil capitol of the country. It's what built the computer age and the internet. A dream of success with limited government intrusion--that's what makes America a beacon to the world.
Ambition and greed are not the same thing. One can, of course, choose to redefine words if one has enough support. But greed, in its generally accepted sense, will never be a good thing. It is immoral and destructive.



Again, I ask, if we redefine the word, greed, what word will then mean "an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth"?
Long story short, I believe that greed has propelled this country into what it currently is. Without it, I don't think this country would've ever become as developed as it currently is. If you think overall development is a negative thing, then that's your opinion.
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Old October 26th, 2011, 05:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borden123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos' timestamp='1319638935' post='364005

[quote name='borden123' timestamp='1319633233' post='363987']

Perhaps the greed I'm referring to will gain more support if I refer to it as ambition instead. This ambition (greed) is the oil of the entrepreneurial engine, as crass as that may sound. It's what drove people to dig for gold, which in turn led to the development of California. It's what made Texas the oil capitol of the country. It's what built the computer age and the internet. A dream of success with limited government intrusion--that's what makes America a beacon to the world.
Ambition and greed are not the same thing. One can, of course, choose to redefine words if one has enough support. But greed, in its generally accepted sense, will never be a good thing. It is immoral and destructive.



Again, I ask, if we redefine the word, greed, what word will then mean "an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth"?
Long story short, I believe that greed has propelled this country into what it currently is. Without it, I don't think this country would've ever become as developed as it currently is. If you think overall development is a negative thing, then that's your opinion.

[/quote]



That's seeing with one eye open borden. If greed is the propelling force, then it's got to be responsible for all the negative attributes of our nation as well.
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Old October 27th, 2011, 08:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by borden123' timestamp='1319640466' post='364017

[quote name='CrazyFlamingos' timestamp='1319638935' post='364005']

[quote name='borden123' timestamp='1319633233' post='363987']

Perhaps the greed I'm referring to will gain more support if I refer to it as ambition instead. This ambition (greed) is the oil of the entrepreneurial engine, as crass as that may sound. It's what drove people to dig for gold, which in turn led to the development of California. It's what made Texas the oil capitol of the country. It's what built the computer age and the internet. A dream of success with limited government intrusion--that's what makes America a beacon to the world.
Ambition and greed are not the same thing. One can, of course, choose to redefine words if one has enough support. But greed, in its generally accepted sense, will never be a good thing. It is immoral and destructive.



Again, I ask, if we redefine the word, greed, what word will then mean "an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth"?
Long story short, I believe that greed has propelled this country into what it currently is. Without it, I don't think this country would've ever become as developed as it currently is. If you think overall development is a negative thing, then that's your opinion.

[/quote]



That's seeing with one eye open borden. If greed is the propelling force, then it's got to be responsible for all the negative attributes of our nation as well.

[/quote]

I see where you're going with that, but remember there are two sides to greed. One that is synonymous with ambition (positive), and the other is synonymous with avarice (negative).
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Old October 27th, 2011, 08:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borden123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1319680413' post='364278

[quote name='borden123' timestamp='1319640466' post='364017']

[quote name='CrazyFlamingos' timestamp='1319638935' post='364005']

[quote name='borden123' timestamp='1319633233' post='363987']

Perhaps the greed I'm referring to will gain more support if I refer to it as ambition instead. This ambition (greed) is the oil of the entrepreneurial engine, as crass as that may sound. It's what drove people to dig for gold, which in turn led to the development of California. It's what made Texas the oil capitol of the country. It's what built the computer age and the internet. A dream of success with limited government intrusion--that's what makes America a beacon to the world.
Ambition and greed are not the same thing. One can, of course, choose to redefine words if one has enough support. But greed, in its generally accepted sense, will never be a good thing. It is immoral and destructive.



Again, I ask, if we redefine the word, greed, what word will then mean "an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth"?
Long story short, I believe that greed has propelled this country into what it currently is. Without it, I don't think this country would've ever become as developed as it currently is. If you think overall development is a negative thing, then that's your opinion.

[/quote]



That's seeing with one eye open borden. If greed is the propelling force, then it's got to be responsible for all the negative attributes of our nation as well.

[/quote]

I see where you're going with that, but remember there are two sides to greed. One that is synonymous with ambition (positive), and the other is synonymous with avarice (negative).

[/quote]

When did greed become synonymous with ambition? For my entire life, i have known it only as synonymous with avarice.



And, if you are really talking about ambition, why not use that word instead of a negatively loaded word like greed?
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Old October 27th, 2011, 09:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by borden123' timestamp='1319732143' post='364331

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1319680413' post='364278']

[quote name='borden123' timestamp='1319640466' post='364017']

[quote name='CrazyFlamingos' timestamp='1319638935' post='364005']

[quote name='borden123' timestamp='1319633233' post='363987']

Perhaps the greed I'm referring to will gain more support if I refer to it as ambition instead. This ambition (greed) is the oil of the entrepreneurial engine, as crass as that may sound. It's what drove people to dig for gold, which in turn led to the development of California. It's what made Texas the oil capitol of the country. It's what built the computer age and the internet. A dream of success with limited government intrusion--that's what makes America a beacon to the world.
Ambition and greed are not the same thing. One can, of course, choose to redefine words if one has enough support. But greed, in its generally accepted sense, will never be a good thing. It is immoral and destructive.



Again, I ask, if we redefine the word, greed, what word will then mean "an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth"?
Long story short, I believe that greed has propelled this country into what it currently is. Without it, I don't think this country would've ever become as developed as it currently is. If you think overall development is a negative thing, then that's your opinion.

[/quote]



That's seeing with one eye open borden. If greed is the propelling force, then it's got to be responsible for all the negative attributes of our nation as well.

[/quote]

I see where you're going with that, but remember there are two sides to greed. One that is synonymous with ambition (positive), and the other is synonymous with avarice (negative).

[/quote]

When did greed become synonymous with ambition? For my entire life, i have known it only as synonymous with avarice.



And, if you are really talking about ambition, why not use that word instead of a negatively loaded word like greed?

[/quote]

Since ambition has reflected an intense or strong desire to achieve something.



Greed grabs more attention than ambition does.
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Old October 27th, 2011, 10:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borden123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyFlamingos' timestamp='1319732613' post='364335

[quote name='borden123' timestamp='1319732143' post='364331']

[quote name='imaginethat' timestamp='1319680413' post='364278']

[quote name='borden123' timestamp='1319640466' post='364017']

[quote name='CrazyFlamingos' timestamp='1319638935' post='364005']

[quote name='borden123' timestamp='1319633233' post='363987']

Perhaps the greed I'm referring to will gain more support if I refer to it as ambition instead. This ambition (greed) is the oil of the entrepreneurial engine, as crass as that may sound. It's what drove people to dig for gold, which in turn led to the development of California. It's what made Texas the oil capitol of the country. It's what built the computer age and the internet. A dream of success with limited government intrusion--that's what makes America a beacon to the world.
Ambition and greed are not the same thing. One can, of course, choose to redefine words if one has enough support. But greed, in its generally accepted sense, will never be a good thing. It is immoral and destructive.



Again, I ask, if we redefine the word, greed, what word will then mean "an excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth"?
Long story short, I believe that greed has propelled this country into what it currently is. Without it, I don't think this country would've ever become as developed as it currently is. If you think overall development is a negative thing, then that's your opinion.

[/quote]



That's seeing with one eye open borden. If greed is the propelling force, then it's got to be responsible for all the negative attributes of our nation as well.

[/quote]

I see where you're going with that, but remember there are two sides to greed. One that is synonymous with ambition (positive), and the other is synonymous with avarice (negative).

[/quote]

When did greed become synonymous with ambition? For my entire life, i have known it only as synonymous with avarice.



And, if you are really talking about ambition, why not use that word instead of a negatively loaded word like greed?

[/quote]

Since ambition has reflected an intense or strong desire to achieve something.



Greed grabs more attention than ambition does.

[/quote]



It's too 1984 for me, borden, a "war is peace" moment. Greed has a negative connotation, and the attention it grabs is negative.
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