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Old November 8th, 2014, 02:02 AM   #91
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The human brain is complex beyond imagination. There have been tests to indicate that free will is just an illusion.

I don't know if we have free will. Everything from my experience tells me that I do so I assume everyone else does as well.

I do know that if there is an omniscient god then, by definition, it is impossible to have free will.
How? I'm pretty omniscient when it comes to my family...but they still get to do as they please.
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Old November 8th, 2014, 07:30 AM   #92
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How? I'm pretty omniscient when it comes to my family...but they still get to do as they please.
(My bold)

pretty omniscient is like kinda pregnant - no can do. It's a binary choice, 0 or 1.

So - the big difference here - the reason your being knowledgeable about your family doesn't translate to determining their every thought, word, deed - you're not God. Not even - I daresay - a god.

I know, it's a shock, but still - there it is.
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Old November 8th, 2014, 01:20 PM   #93
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How? I'm pretty omniscient when it comes to my family...but they still get to do as they please.
Omniscient would mean that you would know the exact day and hour that your unborn great great great grandchild is going to speak their first word and what the word is going to be.

And if that event is written into stone to the point that you KNOW the outcome, then your great great great grandchild lacks any kind of free will.
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Old November 8th, 2014, 06:15 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Omniscient would mean that you would know the exact day and hour that your unborn great great great grandchild is going to speak their first word and what the word is going to be.

And if that event is written into stone to the point that you KNOW the outcome, then your great great great grandchild lacks any kind of free will.
And if he did know, does not mean the great great grandchild first words and timing would be under his control and if he has the power to control it does not mean he is going to take control over it.

It means it happens because the child is ready,

Last edited by TNVolunteer73; November 8th, 2014 at 06:19 PM.
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Old November 9th, 2014, 06:33 PM   #95
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And if he did know, does not mean the great great grandchild first words and timing would be under his control and if he has the power to control it does not mean he is going to take control over it.

It means it happens because the child is ready,
Once again, where have I said one damn word about control????

I am talking about KNOWLEDGE....Omniscience is a about KNOWLDEGE....it has NOTHING to do with control. If I was talking about having power over future events then I would be talking about omnipotence but I am not.

If the future is KNOWN then it is unchangeable which means free will does not exist.

It has nothing to do with control.
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Old November 9th, 2014, 06:39 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Once again, where have I said one damn word about control????

I am talking about KNOWLEDGE....Omniscience is a about KNOWLDEGE....it has NOTHING to do with control. If I was talking about having power over future events then I would be talking about omnipotence but I am not.

If the future is KNOWN then it is unchangeable which means free will does not exist.

It has nothing to do with control.
That is not how free will works, nor is it a debatable concept regarding free will.

What are referencing, Compatibilist Freewill or Libertarian Freewill?
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Old November 9th, 2014, 08:12 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Once again, where have I said one damn word about control????

I am talking about KNOWLEDGE....Omniscience is a about KNOWLDEGE....it has NOTHING to do with control. If I was talking about having power over future events then I would be talking about omnipotence but I am not.

If the future is KNOWN then it is unchangeable which means free will does not exist.

It has nothing to do with control.
If the future is known, does not make it unchangeable.. (just there would be knowledge of the change)
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Old December 8th, 2014, 06:07 AM   #98
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If the future is known, does not make it unchangeable.. (just there would be knowledge of the change)
I have a choice to make, either I'm going to have cereal or eggs for breakfast tomorrow morning. If some entity KNOWS what I am going to choose and has known since before I was even born (omniscience) then I really don't have a choice. I may think I do because I don't know the future but the reality is that I don't.

Supposedly your god has known since the moment of creation what choice I'm going to make. I cannot make a choice to have eggs if he KNOWS I'm going to choose cereal (and left over pizza is completely out of the question)
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Old December 8th, 2014, 06:35 AM   #99
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you're still unable to step outside your temporally limited point of view.

if time is not a barrier, then there is no such thing as before and after.
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Old December 8th, 2014, 07:34 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
I have a choice to make, either I'm going to have cereal or eggs for breakfast tomorrow morning. If some entity KNOWS what I am going to choose and has known since before I was even born (omniscience) then I really don't have a choice. I may think I do because I don't know the future but the reality is that I don't.

Supposedly your god has known since the moment of creation what choice I'm going to make. I cannot make a choice to have eggs if he KNOWS I'm going to choose cereal (and left over pizza is completely out of the question)

That is not how free will works, nor is it a debatable concept regarding free will.

What are referencing, Compatibilist Freewill or Libertarian Freewill?
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