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Old February 18th, 2014, 05:44 PM   #1
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free will

in nature we have actions and reactions. everything that happens is the consequence of the actions that precede it.

everything is like a computer just processing a program, no decisions are made.

so how is free will possible?
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Old February 18th, 2014, 06:02 PM   #2
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Did something force you to post that question, or did you do so of your own free will?
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Old February 18th, 2014, 06:13 PM   #3
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I refute you thus

Quote:
Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
in nature we have actions and reactions. everything that happens is the consequence of the actions that precede it.

everything is like a computer just processing a program, no decisions are made.

so how is free will possible?
(My bold)

Well, there are decision points in software - if you look @ a text layout of software, you'll see diamond-shaped Yes/No points - like Is the sum equal to or greater than 10? With different legs to follow, depending on the answer.

Yah, back as the Industrial Revolution gained steam, philosophers started laying down the equivalent of machine logic & saying that ultimately human values & life itself & presumably divinity itself could be reduced to a kind of clockwork - thus the metaphor of the great cause, the Universal Watchmaker.

That's loading the dice, though. We know from inspection in this universe that a watch implies a watchmaker. We don't know that about the universe @ large - in fact that's one of the great questions that we're pursuing - & so the metaphor is an attempt to lead the witness.

Binary logic is Y/N, off/on. Biological life, to say nothing of spiritual or intellectual life, seems to have variable functions, & the interaction of the various functions is not linear - or @ least, has not yet yielded to a mechanical kind of analysis for a fully functioning adult. There may come the day, when we can reliably predict how a given individual will react to any reasonable set of stimuli. Praise St. Freud, we're not there yet.
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Old February 18th, 2014, 08:02 PM   #4
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Did something force you to post that question, or did you do so of your own free will?
i was motivated to start this thread because nwolfe brought up free will on another thread and I did not want to disrupt the discussion there with this side topic.
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Old February 18th, 2014, 10:18 PM   #5
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Even if the world were deterministic, this would not conflict with free will. Free will just means that your choices are unconstrained. Determinism is not a constraint. But anyway, quantum physics shows that the world isn't deterministic.
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Old February 18th, 2014, 11:39 PM   #6
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i think our choices are constrained, but not totally. to really exercise free will there is a boundary of inertia to be overcome. the boundary is environment and heredity and the weight of culture. true exercise of free will is rare. an act of power and courage.
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Old February 19th, 2014, 01:24 AM   #7
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it has nothing to do with any courage and surely never power .. freedom is not about feeling being free.. that is stupid thing to say which show the edge of opportunist you are through

freedom is a fact of being plus .. what is more is out of everything so it is a right of being an individual self source for whatever positive he might enjoy realizing or creating alone ..

the fact that all means or wills are relative and not something else or more out of life.. is due to evil oneness of your god powers but also to natural powers of negative freedom that lives by taking advantage from any ground, so what cant respect freedom rights basically.. the base of evil powers that became absolutely over any free being, over any true plus
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Old February 19th, 2014, 11:50 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
i was motivated to start this thread because nwolfe brought up free will on another thread and I did not want to disrupt the discussion there with this side topic.
So would you claim that no free will is involved in your decision to start this thread, since Nwolfe motivated you to do so? In my opinion, just because something motivates you to make a decision, that does not mean the motivations overwhelm your exercise of free will. One's environment and heredity and culture can influence a decision in one direction or another, but those influences do not override the fact that a decision is made out of one's own free will.
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Old February 19th, 2014, 12:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookworm View Post
So would you claim that no free will is involved in your decision to start this thread, since Nwolfe motivated you to do so? In my opinion, just because something motivates you to make a decision, that does not mean the motivations overwhelm your exercise of free will. One's environment and heredity and culture can influence a decision in one direction or another, but those influences do not override the fact that a decision is made out of one's own free will.
But you don't understand. God put Nwolf on the earth for the single purpose of bringing up free will in that thread. And since god knows everything and made everything he made Webguy with a mentality such that he knew Webguy would start this thread because of that. No free will at all.
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Old February 19th, 2014, 04:38 PM   #10
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If the future is known (as it would be with an omniscient god) then free will does not exist.

If the future is unknown then free will can exist (but is not required to exist)
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