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Old June 13th, 2017, 06:48 PM   #31
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An experiment was conducted.
A person was given a number, either a 7 digit number or a 4 digit number, they were told to memorize the number, and go to a room down the hall, and repeat the number to a researcher there.
In the hall was a table with a person who offered the subject a reward to thank them for participating in the study, they could choose either a piece of Chocolate cake or cup of fruit.

Those given a seven digit number to memorize overwhelming chose the cake, those given a 4 digit number overwhelmingly chose the fruit.

Is that free will?
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Old June 13th, 2017, 06:52 PM   #32
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An experiment was conducted.
A person was given a number, either a 7 digit number or a 4 digit number, they were told to memorize the number, and go to a room down the hall, and repeat the number to a researcher there.
In the hall was a table with a person who offered the subject a reward to thank them for participating in the study, they could choose either a piece of Chocolate cake or cup of fruit.

Those given a seven digit number to memorize overwhelming chose the cake, those given a 4 digit number overwhelmingly chose the fruit.

Is that free will?
Sounds like a coincidence. Would there be something in the length of the number that would control the person's choice of food? You would have to be able to prove control to claim it was not free will.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 09:21 AM   #33
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What is the opposite of free will? Is it "controlled will"? Who would be doing the controlling?
I suppose that the opposite of free will is to say that our existence is a giant pachinko machine.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 10:13 AM   #34
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I suppose that the opposite of free will is to say that our existence is a giant pachinko machine.
So then would we as individuals be the machines, or the balls, or the person who pulls the lever which releases the ball?
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Old June 14th, 2017, 10:26 AM   #35
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So then would we as individuals be the machines, or the balls, or the person who pulls the lever which releases the ball?
We are the balls.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 10:34 AM   #36
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We are the balls.
So would I be playing in the same machine with every other ball on the planet, or does everybody get their own specially designed machine?
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Old June 14th, 2017, 10:49 AM   #37
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So would I be playing in the same machine with every other ball on the planet, or does everybody get their own specially designed machine?
Going entirely by objective observation, we are all in the same machine, all bouncing against everything and everybody all toward the same inevitable bottom.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 12:53 PM   #38
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Going entirely by objective observation, we are all in the same machine, all bouncing against everything and everybody all toward the same inevitable bottom.
Well, if there's bouncing, there must be free will. Otherwise, we would all enter the machine in the exact same way, with the exact same force, hit the exact same obstacles, and after the exact same period of time, hit the bottom in the exact same spot, one by one by one. It is our decisions that create the differences in path that would then provide for bouncing.
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Old June 15th, 2017, 09:25 AM   #39
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Well, if there's bouncing, there must be free will. Otherwise, we would all enter the machine in the exact same way, with the exact same force, hit the exact same obstacles, and after the exact same period of time, hit the bottom in the exact same spot, one by one by one. It is our decisions that create the differences in path that would then provide for bouncing.
I find your conclusion is based on a false premise, that life is fair.
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Old June 15th, 2017, 09:37 AM   #40
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Well, if there's bouncing, there must be free will. Otherwise, we would all enter the machine in the exact same way, with the exact same force, hit the exact same obstacles, and after the exact same period of time, hit the bottom in the exact same spot, one by one by one. It is our decisions that create the differences in path that would then provide for bouncing.
Bouncing is a physical act determined by laws of physics that interact in such a complicated fashion so as to simulate randomness. Does not resemble free will at all.
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