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Old October 5th, 2017, 10:11 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
I just like when you guys point your fingers about your perceived atrocities of the past as you were the first generation who will have left the future generations worse off than it was given to you.

What have we accomplished? we have been busy cleaning up your mess so hopefully there will be something left after you are gone though it is still undecided if society will survive you guys.



I do not believe that this was done maliciously, btw.
You haven't done shit. The world continues its downward spiral, and all you can do is blame someone else for it .... while you put gas in your car, use coal--fired electricity, and generally live a "normal" life just like the boomers do. Cleaned up my mess?



As for the next generation being worse off, you can thank that fantasy called fiat currency-funded "free market" capitalism for fooling you. The rails finally came off that line of political bullshit. It sure was fun to believe that everyone will always have more shit to consume than the previous generations, huh?

It was a lie.

Now go get your widdle blanket and roll yourself up in a widdle ball and whine some more about how unfair life is all on accounta those boomers who fucked up everything for you, fucked things up so bad that you've had to spend your life cleaning up after them.

But of course, they didn't maliciously ruin your life. Pitiful
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Old October 5th, 2017, 12:07 PM   #42
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The trouble is that you think of these issues in terms of an Eighteenth-Century society, which disappeared long since.
I prefer to think of it in historical terms:

"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." Ecclesiastes 1:9


History keep happening in cycles. It's hard to blame constitutionalists / conservatives/ Christians for the current state of affairs in America. A wise man once observed:

"Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government."

Originalism, textualism, strict constructionism, original intent, etc. don't appear to be mutually exclusive, but rather roads that keep intersecting. The fact is, America is currently being run by an illegal / de facto government emanating out of Washington Wonderland, District of Corruption. To blame the people who favor a free market for the socialistic policies of liberals and their apologists is disingenuous at best.
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Old October 7th, 2017, 01:37 AM   #43
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While channel hopping on Sunday morning one of the political news programs (could have been Meet the Press) had some news guru saying that the Republican Party has come down to Nationalists with Donald Trump and Globalists within the Establishment Republicans.

My take is a bit different. Since Fox News is owned primarily by Rupert Murdoch and a Saudi Prince. There is no way they are going to allow nationalists to build an effective defense against globalism. They will let it appear that the nationalists have a voice when, in fact, the positions Fox promotes ultimately leads to globalism.

Then you have Donald Trump who is cozy with Rupert Murdoch. Then the ultimate nationalists, the alt right are represented by Richard Spencer, an atheist. The Democrats represent socialism and communism. Establishment Republicans represent globalism. The "nationalists" represent atheists, National Socialists, and the ultimate POLICE STATE. Who represents constitutionalists? Who is representing Liberty?
Looks like you're trying to think too hard! There is no actual great capitalist battle between globalists and nationalists...it's all empty rhetoric, since the US controls all the levers of international finance, trade and regulation - through the World Bank, IMF and the WTO. BUT America is clinging by its fingernails today to maintaining that power! That's why Obama announced the so called "Pivot To Asia" a few years ago. The "pivot" is about pivoting carrier fleets and destroyers into monitoring shipping lanes and pushing regime changes in some third world nations..like Sudan, where Chinese business operators had crept in and taken contracts American oil companies thought they were guaranteed...another example would be making sure Afghanistan remains a failed state so China cannot take advantage of the mining contracts they won from the Afghan Government to exploit billions of dollars worth of rare earth minerals and metals in the mountainous eastern quarter of that country. When the US is winning this game...as they were for the most part since the end of WWII, they talk the language of internationalism and cooperation/when the US is losing or fearing losing advantage, then the talk becomes nationalistic and protectionist...but they all work for the same racket!
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Old October 7th, 2017, 01:54 AM   #44
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This is pretty well standard for conservatives - their primary belief is in making as much money as possible, whereas their words are always about whatever might appeal to those they make it out of. It is called being two-faced.
Conservatism began as a disingenuous scam back in the late 1700's, when the aristocrats, bankers and middle class merchants of Europe lost their shit when they learned of the French Revolution, and how the Jacobins were sending their privileged classes to the guillotine! France had a revolution which began as a demand for reforms, but ended up as full-on class warfare with an overwhelming majority of have-nots going after the few who had all the wealth and were still able to eat well during years of famine.

The genius of the first conservative idealogues...likely starting with Edmund Burke in England, was to peel off as much of the peasant and working classes as possible by using the appeals to tradition and identity- like nationalism, religion, English virtues etc.. Burke was about the first theorist to realize that the privileged classes better come up with a defense of social and economic inequality or they might be on their way to the guillotines as well!

Since Burke's time, conservative ideology has branched off in several directions trying to appeal to different segments of the population. Libertarianism tries to grab a younger mostly male following by taking advantage of the innate grandiose sense of self-importance and ability that most youth have until they grow up and recognize their limitations! Standard conservatism sounds patronizing during good times, but when they become desperate, the leaders who come out of this bogus 'meritocracy' dogma start sharpening those appeals to identity, and it doesn't take much of a leap for conservatism to turn into full-blown fascism whenever they see trouble ahead and want a zealous, ruthless band of followers to terrorize any segments of the population who might threaten the status quo.
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Old October 7th, 2017, 02:02 AM   #45
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A great many people work hard, but capitalism steals all their money. I'm for a democratic world government, under which any minor group that wants it gets a reasonable degree of self-government.
Considering the ecological state of this planet...which could be leading to human die-offs as early as mid-century, there has to be some way of ending capitalism and getting everyone to come together to share the dwindling resources of this planet properly, or there won't be very many generations of humans coming after us to worry about government! Dahr Jamail | Climate Disruption Could Pose "Existential Threat" by 2050
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Old October 7th, 2017, 02:06 AM   #46
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At about the same time our new Republic was being formed, there were globalist organizations coming into existence. Still, our form of government prevailed. It has been until fairly recent years that the de facto (illegal) government has overtaken the de jure Republic.

People need to bear in mind that in its history the United States of America has committed more lives on the battlefield fighting for Freedom and Liberty than any single nation in history. We've sent out more missionaries, rebuilt more countries, and given more money to help the needy and the oppressed than any nation in recorded history.

America has created more wealth and jobs than anywhere else and, until recent years, America has been the place that every person, regardless of what country they were in wanted to come to.

In 1620 The Mayflower arrived in America with 102 passengers. The crew wound up staying the first winter in America before sailing home. At the end of that winter, half the crew of the Mayflower had died along with all but 53 colonists. And from those surviving colonists our forefathers began building a nation that was the envy of the world.

The land my forefathers left has less than half as many people living there as there are in the United States. Our standard of living is higher and despite all its shortcomings, you can still get most anything in abundance in America.

The entire world knows what America is except for the current generation of the posterity that founded this nation. When the blacks wanted to politicize their fight against the whites, they called the tv series "Eyes on the Prize." I found that interesting because most politicians up to the time of Ronald Reagan would invoke the words of John Winthrop's 1630 sermon "A Model of Christian Charity" and his words about the shining city on a hill ( a reference to Matthew 5: 14.) Even Ted Cruz and James Comey have referenced it.

Most historically astute observers recognize America as the beacon of Liberty; the shining city on a hill; the New Jerusalem of the Bible - you know, the city without walls (Zechariah 2 : 4) and our history shows what a nation can do.

I would agree that America is dominated by big money today. Whether left or right; Democrat or Republican; conservative or liberal, the average American allows themselves to be dictated to by big money. Corporate greed feeds off our inability to divest ourselves of the love of money and so we become slaves rather than independent individuals that can provide for their own sustenance.

It may take a war on our own shores in order to wake people up. Then again, history is cyclical so after we've suffered through tyranny and oppression - the kind globalism will bring, we will rise up again and begin the fight all over.

From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.
Let me introduce you to a different take on American history that will turn all that "shining city on a hill BS" on its head: https://www.amazon.com/Counter-Revol.../dp/1479893404
Sounds interesting from the interviews I've heard of Prof. Gerald Horne so far. I haven't got it yet, but I plan to when I finish stuff I'm reading right now.
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Old October 7th, 2017, 02:13 AM   #47
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I made no such analogy. I pointed out to an historical truth. You cannot justify our presence in places like the Middle East protecting the Israelis without employing a double standard.

The process is either acceptable OR it is not. You're seeking to apply a double standard to the people who built this nation.
If you're using the sale of Manhattan for $22.00 as an example of whites buying land from natives, that didn't last very long before the era of genocides began to clear the continent.
I agree there's no good excuse for embracing zionism...a doctrine that we were here 2000 years ago so we want our land back! I'd say they're both wrong.
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Old October 7th, 2017, 02:35 AM   #48
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I don't justify our presence in the ME. The Zionists can take care of themselves, and any time that means screwing us over in the process, they'll do it. Every time. So, no double standard is involved here.
Woah, hold on a second! Why should we be supporting "zionists taking care of themselves" any more than it was considered acceptable to support Apartheid-era South Africa back in the day? Main difference seems to be powerful financial backers and the fact that the Garrison State of Israel has turned itself into the weapons and tactical laboratory for the US and allied military and police forces to learn their state of the art "counter-terrorism" techniques.
Remember when there used to be all those anti-apartheid concerts back in the day...you couldn't get Bono or Paul Simon to shut up about it! Where are they now? Radiohead bills itself as progressive and revolutionary...then they go do a tour of Israel and get indignant that Roger Waters becomes about the only big name criticizing their hypocrisy. While in the 80's, playing Sun City could mean career death for trendy, hipster pop and rock stars.
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The process of killing and conquest for a long time was "acceptable," meaning no one talked back to the victors. Stop and think for a minute discollector. Unalienable rights bestowed by the Creator and killing and conquest cannot co-exist. Pretty clearly, in killing and conquest somebody's unalienable rights are getting toasted.

Your history of the relationship between the Native Americans and the white Americans is beyond rose-tinted. I'm officially a member of the Cherokee nation. I've studied our history but I don't think you have. The Cherokees, along with the other members of the Five Civilized Tribes, were roundly and royally screwed, e.g. The Trail of Tears.
The Cherokees and so many others were forced off their lands during the middle of winter, to deliberately kill off many of the people. There's a new absolution of guilt that declares there weren't that many Indians living here (there were..most were cultivating the land/not hunter gatherers living in the forests) and they died of white man's diseases...as if that was something better! But the truth is that disease was very selective, affecting some tribal groups much greater than others. Without the Indian Wars and death marches, the indigenous populations would have been much greater and been a stumbling block to building a white nation in the Americas.
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Unalienable rights are bestowed by the Creator. Citizenship is bestowed by the created. Are we good on that?

The human race MUST evolve, or die. As I mentioned, the process of killing and conquest was acceptable for a long time, but those times are gone.
Somebody's got to pull the plug on these war profiteers pretty soon, or this world will be completely destroyed.
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Old October 7th, 2017, 06:42 AM   #49
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Looks like you're trying to think too hard! There is no actual great capitalist battle between globalists and nationalists...it's all empty rhetoric, since the US controls all the levers of international finance, trade and regulation - through the World Bank, IMF and the WTO. BUT America is clinging by its fingernails today to maintaining that power! That's why Obama announced the so called "Pivot To Asia" a few years ago. The "pivot" is about pivoting carrier fleets and destroyers into monitoring shipping lanes and pushing regime changes in some third world nations..like Sudan, where Chinese business operators had crept in and taken contracts American oil companies thought they were guaranteed...another example would be making sure Afghanistan remains a failed state so China cannot take advantage of the mining contracts they won from the Afghan Government to exploit billions of dollars worth of rare earth minerals and metals in the mountainous eastern quarter of that country. When the US is winning this game...as they were for the most part since the end of WWII, they talk the language of internationalism and cooperation/when the US is losing or fearing losing advantage, then the talk becomes nationalistic and protectionist...but they all work for the same racket!
That is exactly why I'm asking who represents those of us who are not on either side of that equation.
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Old October 7th, 2017, 06:48 AM   #50
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Let me introduce you to a different take on American history that will turn all that "shining city on a hill BS" on its head: https://www.amazon.com/Counter-Revol.../dp/1479893404
Sounds interesting from the interviews I've heard of Prof. Gerald Horne so far. I haven't got it yet, but I plan to when I finish stuff I'm reading right now.
You mean you're going to rewrite history so that the United States did not commit more soldiers on the battlefield to die for Liberty than any other nation? The U.S. didn't send out more missionaries and expend more money in nation building while never forcing our form of government on the countries we rebuilt?

Must be quite a book...
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