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Old October 7th, 2017, 12:52 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
That is exactly why I'm asking who represents those of us who are not on either side of that equation.
Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union and Bush One announced the "beginning of a New World Order" and Frances Fukayama proclaimed "The End of History", everyone has been made part of the game of globalization...including those who claim to be trade nationalists, like the ones behind Trump. They're not going to end any trade pacts that demand the free flow of capital across international borders; they just want to make sure that no upstarts like China dislodge Dollar supremacy and make investments lose all or most of their value. There are no real constitutionalists...at least when it's not convenient, and the only liberty they believe in is the liberty of those who have to take more away from those who have not.
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Old October 7th, 2017, 01:06 PM   #52
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You mean you're going to rewrite history so that the United States did not commit more soldiers on the battlefield to die for Liberty than any other nation? The U.S. didn't send out more missionaries and expend more money in nation building while never forcing our form of government on the countries we rebuilt?

Must be quite a book...
Define this "liberty" you speak of! The US condemned the colonial powers like England, Spain and France back in the day because they were busy colonizing a continent. Once all the spaces got filled in with Americans and white settlers from other...lesser nations of Europe, then it was off to creating colonies of its own such as Puerto Rico, the two nations of Hispanola, the Phillippines and a whole bunch of islands in the Pacific for strategic purposes. But you're joking when you say that America's 'nation building' was done for altruistic reasons and not for the purpose of economic exploitation. A clue can be found in the large number of nations where the US...usually by means of the CIA has instigated military coups putting US-trained and financed friendly despots in power after they overthrew democratic governments that weren't following directives from the State Dept.. America has been..and still is today, the world's largest and most oppressive colonial power in history! The only difference between America and prior colonial powers is the tactic of controlling foreign nations from behind the scenes rather than having a political government of foreign occupation that foments resentment from local populations.

As for the book I mentioned by Gerald Horne, I'm looking forward to reading a different...non-mythologized take on US history that should tell a lot of people why black and red living in America don't feel all gushy and patriotic about the flag and the anthem!

Quote:
The successful 1776 revolt against British rule in North America has been hailed almost universally as a great step forward for humanity. But the Africans then living in the colonies overwhelmingly sided with the British. In this trailblazing book, Gerald Horne shows that in the prelude to 1776, the abolition of slavery seemed all but inevitable in London, delighting Africans as much as it outraged slaveholders, and sparking the colonial revolt.

Prior to 1776, anti-slavery sentiments were deepening throughout Britain and in the Caribbean, rebellious Africans were in revolt. For European colonists in America, the major threat to their security was a foreign invasion combined with an insurrection of the enslaved. It was a real and threatening possibility that London would impose abolition throughout the colonies—a possibility the founding fathers feared would bring slave rebellions to their shores. To forestall it, they went to war.

The so-called Revolutionary War, Horne writes, was in part a counter-revolution, a conservative movement that the founding fathers fought in order to preserve their right to enslave others. The Counter-Revolution of 1776 brings us to a radical new understanding of the traditional heroic creation myth of the United States.
https://www.amazon.com/Counter-Revol.../dp/1479893404
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Old October 7th, 2017, 09:17 PM   #53
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Define this "liberty" you speak of! The US condemned the colonial powers like England, Spain and France back in the day because they were busy colonizing a continent. Once all the spaces got filled in with Americans and white settlers from other...lesser nations of Europe, then it was off to creating colonies of its own such as Puerto Rico, the two nations of Hispanola, the Phillippines and a whole bunch of islands in the Pacific for strategic purposes. But you're joking when you say that America's 'nation building' was done for altruistic reasons and not for the purpose of economic exploitation. A clue can be found in the large number of nations where the US...usually by means of the CIA has instigated military coups putting US-trained and financed friendly despots in power after they overthrew democratic governments that weren't following directives from the State Dept.. America has been..and still is today, the world's largest and most oppressive colonial power in history! The only difference between America and prior colonial powers is the tactic of controlling foreign nations from behind the scenes rather than having a political government of foreign occupation that foments resentment from local populations.

As for the book I mentioned by Gerald Horne, I'm looking forward to reading a different...non-mythologized take on US history that should tell a lot of people why black and red living in America don't feel all gushy and patriotic about the flag and the anthem!


https://www.amazon.com/Counter-Revol.../dp/1479893404
1) Our Constitution is the only Constitution in the world that absolutely guarantees a Bill of Rights. Leftists working through our courts have changed the concepts of our foundational principles, but the current government is NOT the one emanating out of Washington Wonderland, District of Corruption

2) Delivered in 1630, this sermon is the most referenced sermon by ministers, politicians and political leaders in this country since it was delivered

https://www.winthropsociety.com/doc_charity.php

3) You've told people about your book, I'd like to recommend one:

The Light and the Glory by Peter Marshall and David Manuel (click on the next two links)

The Light and the Glory by Peter Marshall and David Manuel

https://www.christianbook.com/light-...2714/pd/732714

Last edited by discollector; October 7th, 2017 at 09:20 PM.
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Old October 8th, 2017, 11:21 PM   #54
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1) Our Constitution is the only Constitution in the world that absolutely guarantees a Bill of Rights. Leftists working through our courts have changed the concepts of our foundational principles, but the current government is NOT the one emanating out of Washington Wonderland, District of Corruption
NO, according to most of the legal and constitutional experts that pop up, the US constitution often tramples over rights of some people. There are better examples:

Quote:
By 1987, almost 95% of countries with constitutions had versions based on the American one. The oldest standing constitution had come to be relied upon as a framework to develop newer ones.

But that trend has been in serious decline since then. There are younger, hipper constitutions out there. Newer constitutions represent a fundamentally different way of thinking about rights and include newer ideas like universal human rights, and have some sexy new ideas that weren't around in the 1700s, like the concept of Protected Classes. (for example, 15.1 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms prohibits discrimination based on "race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age, or mental or physical disability."

) And although there are more rights granted, and the law is interpreted much more broadly, there is also a readily available mechanism to breach those rights. The first section of the Charter states that the Charter guarantees rights: " ...only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

What limits are these? Well, Canadian law can prevent English from appearing on signs in French-speaking Quebec, prevent newspapers from printing the real names of juvenile offenders even after conviction, and prohibit hate speech – all reasonable breaches of their Charter right to free speech.

It turns out that this sort of protection of rights has become the norm over the last thirty years. In addition to the cornerstone values that are found in the U.S. Bill of Rights, most countries have a short list of rights that they protect as well. The researchers, David S. Law and Mila Versteeg, find that there's an "evolutionary path" that constitutional reform has tended to take over the last sixty years. Quote: "there is a significant and growing generic component to global constitutionalism, in the form of a set of rights provisions that appear in nearly all formal constitutions... our analysis also confirms, however, that the U.S. Constitution is increasingly far from the global mainstream."

And instead of the U.S. Constitution being the model worldwide, they find a new champion of democracy: My Homeland and True North Strong and Free, Canada. According to the researchers, our Charter of Rights and Freedoms has influence that is profoundly "neither uniform nor global in scope".

Well, you can't win them all.

What's the Significance?

If Jefferson was right, and constitutions must inevitably and reasonably be refreshed and updated to fit with the living generation, then the document he didn't help write is way out of date. What's worse, other countries are moving on to use genuinely better documents, which provide more rights and stronger protections. American Constitutionalists, who should be discussing the best ways to improve the paper, seem for some reason to think it can't be improved upon -- they'd rather spend their time obsessing over what it means. If the U.S. is interested in regaining its former status as the world's most copied Constitution, they had better make it more current.
http://bigthink.com/think-tank/why-t...e-like-canadas

Quote:
2) Delivered in 1630, this sermon is the most referenced sermon by ministers, politicians and political leaders in this country since it was delivered

https://www.winthropsociety.com/doc_charity.php
Did any of this 'love thy neighbour' homily have any influence in how the USA dealt with natives who were already living on this continent? Does it sound compatible with allowing slave-based economies flourish for centuries afterwards?
How does this analysis mesh with modern banking or conservative and libertarian dogma cutting social programs while offering more tax breaks for the rich:
Quote:
Whether thou didst lend by way of commerce or in mercy, if he hath nothing to pay thee, thou must forgive, (except in cause where thou hast a surety or a lawful pledge). Deut. 15:1-2 --- Every seventh year the creditor was to quit that which he lent to his brother if he were poor, as appears in verse 4. "Save when there shall be no poor with thee." In all these and like cases, Christ gives a general rule (Matt. 7:12), "Whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye the same to them."
Quote:
3) You've told people about your book, I'd like to recommend one:

The Light and the Glory by Peter Marshall and David Manuel (click on the next two links)

The Light and the Glory by Peter Marshall and David Manuel
https://www.christianbook.com/light-...2714/pd/732714
Without a synopsis or any reviews, I don't know how this author connects the Puritans with Christopher Columbus, but I suspect it's going to be another myth of divine providence...America is chosen and favored by God etc.. And I don't know why Americans celebrate Columbus on this day...which up here in Canada is our Thanksgiving holiday, nevertheless, Columbus did set the course for European opportunists to dehumanize the natives so they could be enslaved, raped or murdered en-mass if desired:
Quote:
Christopher Columbus Did NOT Discover America

There, I said it. The first thing we are told about our nation in our early childhood is a complete fabrication of the truth. But, that is only the beginning of the secret atrocities that shaped the nation that we know today.

The Spanish Conquest of the Americas, preceded by its “discovery” by Christopher Columbus (or Cristóbal Colón as he was known by the Spanish Crown) resulted in mass assimilation, raping, slaughtering, enslaving, and intention to wipe out all evidence of a native population of between 50 and 100 million indigenous people from the land — the greatest genocide in recorded history. These well-documented atrocities include:

Forced hard labor.
Abducting and selling children into the sex trade as young as nine-years-old.
Mass raping of women and children.
The amputation of limbs if slaves were not producing ‘enough’.
Labelled as hostile savages if not in complete compliance with their oppressors. Buried alive or burnt alive if you were resistant to the conquerors demands.
Offering cash rewards for the scalps of men, women, and children as proof of murder.
Intentionally spreading smallpox disease, an early means of biological warfare.
Forced removal from homes and land onto small reservations with barren, unlivable conditions.
Death marches of more than one-thousand miles to these reservations in which, if you were unable to continue the walk, you were left for dead and unable to assist dying family members.
On these same reservations “reserved” for the indigenous people, once this land was deemed valuable, the reservation agreement was broken and they were forced to move once again. All 370 treaties signed between the U.S Government and Indian nations have been broken by the United States.

Public execution of those who did not follow orders. Children were murdered by slamming them against stone and tree trunks, while pregnant women’s bellies were sliced open on public display, as a warning to those who did not comply.
These same mass murderers become labeled as heroes after sweeping through villages and slaughtering unarmed civilians.
Systematically kidnapping children and forcing them to a boarding school system in which they are beaten, forbidden to speak native language, brainwashed into becoming “Americanized”, and often molested.
Not entitled to the rights of citizenship in their own land until 1924.
Not included in the initial civil rights act; did not receive equal legal protections/rights until 1968.
Not allowed to practice their own ‘religion’/spirituality until 1978.
In the 1970’s the attendance at these brutal boarding schools peaked and it was not until 1975 that the United States Government emphasized reduction in boarding schools with most of them finally closing in the 1980s and 1990s. In 2007, there were still 9,500 American Indian children kept in boarding schools.
Traditional lifestyle mocked and ridiculed in mass media and in the classroom – socially acceptable to discriminate against.
Altered their history by ignoring and denying the truth for the past four centuries.

These were the policies of our government, the United States of America, as well as the the Spanish Crown and the Pope of the Catholic Church. These atrocities weren’t conducted by aliens from outer space; no, they was done by aliens from the east, who entered an occupied land with force to subjugate and exterminate the civilizations that had existed for at least 30,000 years (some estimates are as high as 200,000 years). And although they became icons of the national myth, only a small proportion of colonists were actually pilgrims and puritans, who arrived in the 1620s.
Happy Columbus Day

Last edited by right to left; October 9th, 2017 at 12:19 AM.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 05:04 AM   #55
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NO, according to most of the legal and constitutional experts that pop up, the US constitution often tramples over rights of some people. There are better examples:


Why the U.S. Constitution Should Be More Like Canada's | Big Think


Did any of this 'love thy neighbour' homily have any influence in how the USA dealt with natives who were already living on this continent? Does it sound compatible with allowing slave-based economies flourish for centuries afterwards?
How does this analysis mesh with modern banking or conservative and libertarian dogma cutting social programs while offering more tax breaks for the rich:



Without a synopsis or any reviews, I don't know how this author connects the Puritans with Christopher Columbus, but I suspect it's going to be another myth of divine providence...America is chosen and favored by God etc.. And I don't know why Americans celebrate Columbus on this day...which up here in Canada is our Thanksgiving holiday, nevertheless, Columbus did set the course for European opportunists to dehumanize the natives so they could be enslaved, raped or murdered en-mass if desired:

Happy Columbus Day
Right to left,

You have a lot of words, but little substance and no real definite point. Let me save you a little time.

You are non-white with a bug up your rump that white people founded / colonized America. So, you prey upon ignorance and historical dishonesty to promote your hate in much the same way the Trumpeteers rail against so - called "illegal aliens."

I realize that what I'm going to say is come as a great big freaking surprise to you, but there are some historical facts that you need to be aware of.

1) Whites did not create the slave trade, but they were the first to outlaw it. Some darker races still practice slavery to this day

2) Slaves in America were treated better than they would have been in their own country. When possible, families were kept together, slaves paid for their work, some put into positions of authority, and they lived / ate better than their white counterparts that were blue collar workers

3) The people that feed you that B.S. you post seem to have an anti-white agenda, but they fail to tell you the rest of the story regarding slavery. It was not an all white institution. Let's take a look at the owners of slave ships:

Name of Ship---Jewish Owners

Abigail------------Aaron Lopez, Moses Levy, Jacob Franks
Crown-------------Issac Levy and Nathan Simpson
Nassau-------------Moses Levy
Four Sisters--------Moses Levy
Anne & Eliza------Justus Bosch and John Abrams
Prudent Betty------Henry Cruger and Jacob Phoenix
Hester----------------Mordecai and David Gomez
Elizabeth ------------Mordecai and David Gomez
Antigua--------------Nathan Marston and Abram Lyell
Betsy -----------------Wm. De Woolf
Polly-------------------James De Woolf
White Horse----------Jan de Sweevts
Expedition-----------John and Jacob Roosevelt
Charlotte-------------Moses and Sam Levy and Jacob Franks
Caracoa---------------Moses and Sam Levy
Source: Elizabeth Donnan, 4 Volumes, 'Documents Illustrative of the History of the Slave Trade to America' Washington, D.C. 1930, 1935 Carnegie Institute of Technology, Pittsburgh, Pa.

In which posting have you acknowledged that?

4) Insofar as you harping on Indians, the colonists did not mistreat Indians. Governments probably did. Your issue with me is non-existent. I'm not for the government taking from anyone who owns something. Haven't you seen the B.S. I face for supporting an employer's Right to give his / her jobs to the person of the business owner's choice?

Indians warred against one another and they had not civilization to speak of. Rightly or wrongly the earliest Americans took America by conquest, which is acceptable in every country on this earth EXCEPT those in which whites defeated non-whites. How come you suppose that is?

5) America was founded for the benefit of whites. That is not cruel, racist, etc., etc. China is over 98 percent Han Chinese; Japan considers itself the most racially pure nation on the planet with over 98 percent being of one race. North Korea is all one people. The United States supports a policy of the Israelis having a homeland. No Arabs need apply.

In Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) according to 2012 Census report, 99.7% of the population is of African origin. Only 30,000 whites live in that country.

You want their to be something evil when whites have their own homeland. That is purely irrational. I understand your racist attitude toward the white people. But, you need to save the hate. It was blacks that sold their brethren into slavery to predominantly Jewish slavers and whites were not the first to engage in the trade, but among the first to end it. And, while the blacks were living on plantations, it was a far better life than what they may have had as commodities for the black people that captured them in the first place. Did you think about that?

https://www.amazon.com/Time-Cross-Ec.../dp/0393312186
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Old October 9th, 2017, 11:52 AM   #56
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Right to left,

You have a lot of words, but little substance and no real definite point. Let me save you a little time.

You are non-white with a bug up your rump that white people founded / colonized America. So, you prey upon ignorance and historical dishonesty to promote your hate in much the same way the Trumpeteers rail against so - called "illegal aliens."

I realize that what I'm going to say is come as a great big freaking surprise to you, but there are some historical facts that you need to be aware of.

1) Whites did not create the slave trade, but they were the first to outlaw it. Some darker races still practice slavery to this day

2) Slaves in America were treated better than they would have been in their own country. When possible, families were kept together, slaves paid for their work, some put into positions of authority, and they lived / ate better than their white counterparts that were blue collar workers

3) The people that feed you that B.S. you post seem to have an anti-white agenda, but they fail to tell you the rest of the story regarding slavery. It was not an all white institution. Let's take a look at the owners of slave ships:

Name of Ship---Jewish Owners

Abigail------------Aaron Lopez, Moses Levy, Jacob Franks
Crown-------------Issac Levy and Nathan Simpson
Nassau-------------Moses Levy
Four Sisters--------Moses Levy
Anne & Eliza------Justus Bosch and John Abrams
Prudent Betty------Henry Cruger and Jacob Phoenix
Hester----------------Mordecai and David Gomez
Elizabeth ------------Mordecai and David Gomez
Antigua--------------Nathan Marston and Abram Lyell
Betsy -----------------Wm. De Woolf
Polly-------------------James De Woolf
White Horse----------Jan de Sweevts
Expedition-----------John and Jacob Roosevelt
Charlotte-------------Moses and Sam Levy and Jacob Franks
Caracoa---------------Moses and Sam Levy
Source: Elizabeth Donnan, 4 Volumes, 'Documents Illustrative of the History of the Slave Trade to America' Washington, D.C. 1930, 1935 Carnegie Institute of Technology, Pittsburgh, Pa.

In which posting have you acknowledged that?

4) Insofar as you harping on Indians, the colonists did not mistreat Indians. Governments probably did. Your issue with me is non-existent. I'm not for the government taking from anyone who owns something. Haven't you seen the B.S. I face for supporting an employer's Right to give his / her jobs to the person of the business owner's choice?

Indians warred against one another and they had not civilization to speak of. Rightly or wrongly the earliest Americans took America by conquest, which is acceptable in every country on this earth EXCEPT those in which whites defeated non-whites. How come you suppose that is?

5) America was founded for the benefit of whites. That is not cruel, racist, etc., etc. China is over 98 percent Han Chinese; Japan considers itself the most racially pure nation on the planet with over 98 percent being of one race. North Korea is all one people. The United States supports a policy of the Israelis having a homeland. No Arabs need apply.

In Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) according to 2012 Census report, 99.7% of the population is of African origin. Only 30,000 whites live in that country.

You want their to be something evil when whites have their own homeland. That is purely irrational. I understand your racist attitude toward the white people. But, you need to save the hate. It was blacks that sold their brethren into slavery to predominantly Jewish slavers and whites were not the first to engage in the trade, but among the first to end it. And, while the blacks were living on plantations, it was a far better life than what they may have had as commodities for the black people that captured them in the first place. Did you think about that?

https://www.amazon.com/Time-Cross-Ec.../dp/0393312186
How about naming the Black Tribes and their chiefs that kidnapped the Blacks and sold them into slavery.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 01:04 PM   #57
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How about naming the Black Tribes and their chiefs that kidnapped the Blacks and sold them into slavery.
Maybe more than I can come up with in a few minutes; however, check this out:

The second slave trade - The Nation Nigeria

Check this out as well:

http://www.academia.edu/8438613/The_...teenth_Century

Last edited by discollector; October 9th, 2017 at 01:11 PM.
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Old October 10th, 2017, 01:03 AM   #58
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Right to left,

You have a lot of words, but little substance and no real definite point. Let me save you a little time.
My substance is looking beyond today's conventional wisdom and mythologizing of the past to better understand the social forces controlling our lives today.
Quote:
You are non-white with a bug up your rump that white people founded / colonized America. So, you prey upon ignorance and historical dishonesty to promote your hate in much the same way the Trumpeteers rail against so - called "illegal aliens."
Did I say I wasn't white? Or did I say I'm not 100% white?

Quote:
I realize that what I'm going to say is come as a great big freaking surprise to you, but there are some historical facts that you need to be aware of.

1) Whites did not create the slave trade, but they were the first to outlaw it. Some darker races still practice slavery to this day
Like it's a big freaking surprise to get the blacks-did-it-too excuse for the slavery industry! You think we all haven't heard this crap before. First, it doesn't justify Jamestown and other colonies embrace of the Caribbean slave industry...especially after all that blather about God and rights etc.. But more to the point, no other nation was applying livestock techniques like selective breeding to produce new slaves with traits desired by their owners...this was a whole new brand of evil that did not exist in the old world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatm..._United_States

In his book: The Half Has Never Been Told, historian- Edward Baptiste goes through the financial records and bookkeeping logs of cotton production in the eight decade long period that slavery was legal in America. He shows that slaveowners kept applying more and more techniques to drive their slaves harder to produce more cotton as evidenced by the data on cotton production per "hand" used to reference slaves working in the fields. Each decade showed higher and higher per hand quotas until the Civil War broke out. Pretty damn obvious that these were no genteel southern gentlemen running these operations! They were greedy, profit-driven bastards...no different than today's industrialists, BUT since slaves were property and not humans accorded any rights..including right to life, the owners' goal was to make as much profit from each slave until they were worked to death.

https://www.amazon.com/Half-Has-Neve...SIN=046500296X

Quote:
2) Slaves in America were treated better than they would have been in their own country. When possible, families were kept together, slaves paid for their work, some put into positions of authority, and they lived / ate better than their white counterparts that were blue collar workers
And which orifice are you pulling this self-serving, condescennding crap from? There is lots of information on record to prove that slaves were treated worse than most domestic animals on a farm. Do you even know more about where they came from than the name of the continent? What were living conditions there?

Quote:
3) The people that feed you that B.S. you post seem to have an anti-white agenda, but they fail to tell you the rest of the story regarding slavery. It was not an all white institution. Let's take a look at the owners of slave ships:

Name of Ship---Jewish Owners
Who gives a crap about who owned slave ships or whether your claim that they're all Jewish is based in fact...since you provide a source that can't be accessed online. Most American slaves were bred by slaveowners/not shipped over from Africa, so it's besides the point anyway...and that point is all of the lofty rhetoric in the Constitution and Bill of Rights did not stand in the way of the enormous amounts of money that were being made from the slavery industry. And most of the north's motives for wanting it shut down were due to the south's grab for more power over national government and creation of more slave states in depopulated indian territories. No constitution stopped the slave industry from growing in America, nor did the constitution bring it to an end. That happened because of different north and south factions competing for control of the nation.

Quote:
4) Insofar as you harping on Indians, the colonists did not mistreat Indians. Governments probably did. Your issue with me is non-existent. I'm not for the government taking from anyone who owns something. Haven't you seen the B.S. I face for supporting an employer's Right to give his / her jobs to the person of the business owner's choice?
They weren't mistreated/ they were annihilated through invasion, forced winter marches and livestock diseases brought over from Europe.

Quote:
Indians warred against one another and they had not civilization to speak of. Rightly or wrongly the earliest Americans took America by conquest, which is acceptable in every country on this earth EXCEPT those in which whites defeated non-whites. How come you suppose that is?
You don't know what you're talking about! Read a book about the subject instead of spouting ignorance. "Indians" represent thousands of different groups who mostly crossed the Bering Land Bridge during the last ice age and had different languages, cultures and ways of life before the first Europeans set foot on North America. It's beyond contemptible for some know-nothing to spout ignorance about nations that existed here for thousands of years and were not waiting for colonists from Europe to tell them how to live on the land!
Quote:
5) America was founded for the benefit of whites. That is not cruel, racist, etc., etc. China is over 98 percent Han Chinese; Japan considers itself the most racially pure nation on the planet with over 98 percent being of one race. North Korea is all one people.
It is racist when you first have to kill off entire groups to clear the land before you can import more whites from Europe and make it a white country! We don't live in China or Japan, so that has nothing to do with it.
Quote:
The United States supports a policy of the Israelis having a homeland. No Arabs need apply.
And nobody should be able to kick out people living in a land because they claim their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago...that should be obvious but.........

Quote:
In Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) according to 2012 Census report, 99.7% of the population is of African origin. Only 30,000 whites live in that country.

You want their to be something evil when whites have their own homeland. That is purely irrational. I understand your racist attitude toward the white people. But, you need to save the hate.
Zimbabwe! I'd ask WTF has that got to do with anything, but I'm running out of time and patience! And you expect all your posts to get responses!

You're the one making this about race! Why should there be white countries and black countries and yellow countries whatever? In an age when people can fly around the world, where do you get this notion of a white homeland? And where is this homeland? Apparently not in Europe, but the continent on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean that was already settled and inhabited for thousands of years!

My objections to European colonization and so called Enlightenment Principles has nothing to do with race, but is instead about cultures that declared themselves superior and have the right to colonize the other nations of the world. It's a culture of greed and unbridled plundering of nature that has brought our world to the brink of disaster today.
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Old October 10th, 2017, 04:11 AM   #59
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My substance is looking beyond today's conventional wisdom and mythologizing of the past to better understand the social forces controlling our lives today.

Did I say I wasn't white? Or did I say I'm not 100% white?


Like it's a big freaking surprise to get the blacks-did-it-too excuse for the slavery industry! You think we all haven't heard this crap before. First, it doesn't justify Jamestown and other colonies embrace of the Caribbean slave industry...especially after all that blather about God and rights etc.. But more to the point, no other nation was applying livestock techniques like selective breeding to produce new slaves with traits desired by their owners...this was a whole new brand of evil that did not exist in the old world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatm..._United_States

In his book: The Half Has Never Been Told, historian- Edward Baptiste goes through the financial records and bookkeeping logs of cotton production in the eight decade long period that slavery was legal in America. He shows that slaveowners kept applying more and more techniques to drive their slaves harder to produce more cotton as evidenced by the data on cotton production per "hand" used to reference slaves working in the fields. Each decade showed higher and higher per hand quotas until the Civil War broke out. Pretty damn obvious that these were no genteel southern gentlemen running these operations! They were greedy, profit-driven bastards...no different than today's industrialists, BUT since slaves were property and not humans accorded any rights..including right to life, the owners' goal was to make as much profit from each slave until they were worked to death.

https://www.amazon.com/Half-Has-Neve...SIN=046500296X


And which orifice are you pulling this self-serving, condescennding crap from? There is lots of information on record to prove that slaves were treated worse than most domestic animals on a farm. Do you even know more about where they came from than the name of the continent? What were living conditions there?


Who gives a crap about who owned slave ships or whether your claim that they're all Jewish is based in fact...since you provide a source that can't be accessed online. Most American slaves were bred by slaveowners/not shipped over from Africa, so it's besides the point anyway...and that point is all of the lofty rhetoric in the Constitution and Bill of Rights did not stand in the way of the enormous amounts of money that were being made from the slavery industry. And most of the north's motives for wanting it shut down were due to the south's grab for more power over national government and creation of more slave states in depopulated indian territories. No constitution stopped the slave industry from growing in America, nor did the constitution bring it to an end. That happened because of different north and south factions competing for control of the nation.


They weren't mistreated/ they were annihilated through invasion, forced winter marches and livestock diseases brought over from Europe.


You don't know what you're talking about! Read a book about the subject instead of spouting ignorance. "Indians" represent thousands of different groups who mostly crossed the Bering Land Bridge during the last ice age and had different languages, cultures and ways of life before the first Europeans set foot on North America. It's beyond contemptible for some know-nothing to spout ignorance about nations that existed here for thousands of years and were not waiting for colonists from Europe to tell them how to live on the land!
It is racist when you first have to kill off entire groups to clear the land before you can import more whites from Europe and make it a white country! We don't live in China or Japan, so that has nothing to do with it.

And nobody should be able to kick out people living in a land because they claim their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago...that should be obvious but.........


Zimbabwe! I'd ask WTF has that got to do with anything, but I'm running out of time and patience! And you expect all your posts to get responses!

You're the one making this about race! Why should there be white countries and black countries and yellow countries whatever? In an age when people can fly around the world, where do you get this notion of a white homeland? And where is this homeland? Apparently not in Europe, but the continent on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean that was already settled and inhabited for thousands of years!

My objections to European colonization and so called Enlightenment Principles has nothing to do with race, but is instead about cultures that declared themselves superior and have the right to colonize the other nations of the world. It's a culture of greed and unbridled plundering of nature that has brought our world to the brink of disaster today.
I don't expect my posts to get responses. I think that you and I are the only ones on this thread and it is really going nowhere.

Every fact, figure, and statistic that does not confirm what you came here to sell is mythology and you have cornered the market on the truth. The whites are little more than savages to you and everything that does not agree with what you want to believe is a damn lie. Now, did I miss anything?

The reality is, I quoted the book Time on the Cross - The Economics of American Negro Slavery. Fogel and Engerman, the authors, were liberal college professors. According to them, fewer than a quarter of the slaves were ever involved in cotton. When you could not admit to that, it was obvious that you did not understand the times - which were very rough to begin with versus how bad you think slaves had it.

The only thing that is relevant to you is how bad you perceive whites are and my point is, whites are no better - nor worse on the treatment of others. When Americans were in Japanese POW camps, they were tortured in ways the blacks in the slave trade could not imagine. It is all relevant.

What you are looking for is a pretext to wage war against white people. Got it. I don't agree with it, but it did remind me of something:

"As soon as it is admitted that the whites and the emancipated blacks are placed upon the same territory in the situation of two alien communities, it will readily be understood that there are but two alternatives for the future; the negroes and the whites must either wholly part or wholly mingle. I have already expressed the conviction which I entertain as to the latter event. I do not imagine that the white and black races will ever live in any country upon an equal footing." Abraham Lincoln

Maybe it is time we went our separate ways.
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Old October 10th, 2017, 10:57 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discollector View Post
I don't expect my posts to get responses. I think that you and I are the only ones on this thread and it is really going nowhere.

Every fact, figure, and statistic that does not confirm what you came here to sell is mythology and you have cornered the market on the truth. The whites are little more than savages to you and everything that does not agree with what you want to believe is a damn lie. Now, did I miss anything?

The reality is, I quoted the book Time on the Cross - The Economics of American Negro Slavery. Fogel and Engerman, the authors, were liberal college professors. According to them, fewer than a quarter of the slaves were ever involved in cotton. When you could not admit to that, it was obvious that you did not understand the times - which were very rough to begin with versus how bad you think slaves had it.
You seem to have a lot more time on your hands than I do, and you just keep shoveling out the same sources that support the standard mythical narrative you prefer.

Quote:
The only thing that is relevant to you is how bad you perceive whites are and my point is, whites are no better - nor worse on the treatment of others. When Americans were in Japanese POW camps, they were tortured in ways the blacks in the slave trade could not imagine. It is all relevant.

What you are looking for is a pretext to wage war against white people. Got it. I don't agree with it, but it did remind me of something:

"As soon as it is admitted that the whites and the emancipated blacks are placed upon the same territory in the situation of two alien communities, it will readily be understood that there are but two alternatives for the future; the negroes and the whites must either wholly part or wholly mingle. I have already expressed the conviction which I entertain as to the latter event. I do not imagine that the white and black races will ever live in any country upon an equal footing." Abraham Lincoln

Maybe it is time we went our separate ways.
Maybe it's time for you and your white supremacist kind to go your own way, but the rest of us are happy to live in mixed racial and ethnic neighborhoods. If you live in a place where you interact with people of all races, religions and ethnicities on a daily basis, you are far less likely to fall prey to the racist messaging that you present! Your only recourse is to accuse others of what you are doing...typical white supremacist tactics!

During the Antebellum period of the South, there were already propagandists hard at work trying to put a smiley face on the slavery industry in America...and those are the kinds of sources you choose to quote from! In that book by Edward Baptiste I mentioned, he presents stacks of information on the increasing profitability of the slavery system (the main reason why costs of purchasing slaves at auctions kept increasing in spite of a couple of economic crashes when the landowners had to go to New York and London banks for more loans to keep their plantations solvent...that in itself may have been a motivating factor for so many rich southerners to push for independence and fund a military solution to their problems. But, not only that, Baptiste maintains that an increase in duels and "honor" killings between mostly slaveholding whites was another sign of cultural degradation that could not be concealed by the wealth and the outward civility.

Were only 25% of slaves...the most expensive commodity in America, let alone the south not employed in cotton during the time that "Cotton Is King?" What period of time does this 25% number come from and does it even matter to begin with? As you keep steering the debate down pointless sidetracks because it's impossible to deny the lasting impact slavery had on American development in culture, economics and politics afterwards.
Quote:

But the rapid expansion of the cotton industry in the Deep South after the invention of the cotton gin greatly increased demand for slave labor, and the Southern states continued as slave societies. Those states attempted to extend slavery into the new Western territories to keep their share of political power in the nation; Southern leaders also wanted to annex Cuba to be used as a slave territory. The United States became polarized over the issue of slavery, represented by the slave and free states divided by the Mason–Dixon line, which separated free Pennsylvania from slave Maryland and Delaware.

Congress during the Jefferson administration prohibited the importation of slaves, effective 1808, although smuggling (illegal importing) was not unusual.[3] Domestic slave trading, however, continued at a rapid pace, driven by labor demands from the development of cotton plantations in the Deep South. More than one million slaves were sold from the Upper South, which had a surplus of labor, and taken to the Deep South in a forced migration, splitting up many families. New communities of African-American culture were developed in the Deep South, and the total slave population in the South eventually reached 4 million before liberation.[4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaver..._United_States
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