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Old October 2nd, 2017, 06:13 AM   #1
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Nationalist or Globalist

While channel hopping on Sunday morning one of the political news programs (could have been Meet the Press) had some news guru saying that the Republican Party has come down to Nationalists with Donald Trump and Globalists within the Establishment Republicans.

My take is a bit different. Since Fox News is owned primarily by Rupert Murdoch and a Saudi Prince. There is no way they are going to allow nationalists to build an effective defense against globalism. They will let it appear that the nationalists have a voice when, in fact, the positions Fox promotes ultimately leads to globalism.

Then you have Donald Trump who is cozy with Rupert Murdoch. Then the ultimate nationalists, the alt right are represented by Richard Spencer, an atheist. The Democrats represent socialism and communism. Establishment Republicans represent globalism. The "nationalists" represent atheists, National Socialists, and the ultimate POLICE STATE. Who represents constitutionalists? Who is representing Liberty?
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 06:45 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
While channel hopping on Sunday morning one of the political news programs (could have been Meet the Press) had some news guru saying that the Republican Party has come down to Nationalists with Donald Trump and Globalists within the Establishment Republicans.

My take is a bit different. Since Fox News is owned primarily by Rupert Murdoch and a Saudi Prince. There is no way they are going to allow nationalists to build an effective defense against globalism. They will let it appear that the nationalists have a voice when, in fact, the positions Fox promotes ultimately leads to globalism.

Then you have Donald Trump who is cozy with Rupert Murdoch. Then the ultimate nationalists, the alt right are represented by Richard Spencer, an atheist. The Democrats represent socialism and communism. Establishment Republicans represent globalism. The "nationalists" represent atheists, National Socialists, and the ultimate POLICE STATE. Who represents constitutionalists? Who is representing Liberty?
This is pretty well standard for conservatives - their primary belief is in making as much money as possible, whereas their words are always about whatever might appeal to those they make it out of. It is called being two-faced.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 07:54 AM   #3
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This is pretty well standard for conservatives - their primary belief is in making as much money as possible, whereas their words are always about whatever might appeal to those they make it out of. It is called being two-faced.
I don't know what the primary belief really is. One thing for certain is that even if you agree that a problem exists, it's not enough to agree. You're compelled to walk lockstep with them on the proposed solution too lest they label you a liberal - or worse.

Today's conservatism (sic) is a full 180 degrees opposite of what it was a mere 25 years ago. So, now I'm left to wonder who represents that portion of our citizenry that still believe in the foundational principles upon which this nation was founded?
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 12:28 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by discollector View Post
While channel hopping on Sunday morning one of the political news programs (could have been Meet the Press) had some news guru saying that the Republican Party has come down to Nationalists with Donald Trump and Globalists within the Establishment Republicans.

My take is a bit different. Since Fox News is owned primarily by Rupert Murdoch and a Saudi Prince. There is no way they are going to allow nationalists to build an effective defense against globalism. They will let it appear that the nationalists have a voice when, in fact, the positions Fox promotes ultimately leads to globalism.

Then you have Donald Trump who is cozy with Rupert Murdoch. Then the ultimate nationalists, the alt right are represented by Richard Spencer, an atheist. The Democrats represent socialism and communism. Establishment Republicans represent globalism. The "nationalists" represent atheists, National Socialists, and the ultimate POLICE STATE. Who represents constitutionalists? Who is representing Liberty?
Which theory of constitutionalism are you talking about? Original Intent; Original Meaning; Strict Constructionism; Textualism; Natural Law; etc. If you are going to break down the differences in Democrats and Republicans and their factions, then you need to be clear as to what faction of Constitutionalism you are trying to ascribe to.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 04:15 PM   #5
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Which theory of constitutionalism are you talking about? Original Intent; Original Meaning; Strict Constructionism; Textualism; Natural Law; etc. If you are going to break down the differences in Democrats and Republicans and their factions, then you need to be clear as to what faction of Constitutionalism you are trying to ascribe to.
What you suggest is way beyond the understanding of many in the House of Representatives and the Senate.

Jefferson summed up the objective here pretty much this way:

On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit of the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”

Clearly Democrats, by their own words, don't give a flip about the Constitution. I won't even bother to ask them. They have no opinion since they think a majority vote ends every dispute.

Before we go off on a tangent on which version we think the people support or the politicians ought to suport, we should find out WHO is with us on a starting point.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 04:31 PM   #6
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This is pretty well standard for conservatives - their primary belief is in making as much money as possible, whereas their words are always about whatever might appeal to those they make it out of. It is called being two-faced.
The love of money is the root of all evil but you can't live on love alone and one can live cheaper than two. This is true all over the world including Rhodesia.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 05:15 PM   #7
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While channel hopping
You watch teevee?? WWhy???
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 06:49 PM   #8
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What you suggest is way beyond the understanding of many in the House of Representatives and the Senate.

Jefferson summed up the objective here pretty much this way:

On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit of the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
I asked which form of Constitutionalism it is that you support, since there are many factions of Constitutionalism.

Jefferson referring to the debates and the Federalist Papers nullifies the use of anti-federalism arguments. If the Constitution is read in the terms of the Federalist Papers and the debates that limits the types of Constitutionalism that would be recognized.

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Clearly Democrats, by their own words, don't give a flip about the Constitution. I won't even bother to ask them. They have no opinion since they think a majority vote ends every dispute.
You're confusing democracy with Democrats. What in the Democratic Party is it you think doesn't defend Liberty? For that matter, what in the Republican Party is it you think doesn't defend Liberty?

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Before we go off on a tangent on which version we think the people support or the politicians ought to suport, we should find out WHO is with us on a starting point.
You have yet to define your starting point. By giving us what faction of Constitutionalism you think defends liberty.

Last edited by TreeDoc; October 2nd, 2017 at 07:15 PM.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 07:08 PM   #9
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You watch teevee?? WWhy???
Well, unlike those who pay for tv I have an antenna. So we get local stuff from the good old days - stuff in black and white. Then there is the local news.

I don't watch enough tv, however to justify cable or satellite.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 07:20 PM   #10
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I asked you which form of Constitutionalism it is that you support, since there are many factions of Constitutionalism.

Jefferson referring to the debates and the Federalist Papers nullifies the use of anti-federalism arguments. If the Constitution is read in the terms of the Federalist Papers and the debates that limits the types of Constitutionalism that would be recognized.

You're confusing democracy with Democrats. What in the Democratic Party is it you think doesn't defend Liberty? For that matter, what in the Republican Party is it you think doesn't defend Liberty?

You have yet to define your staring point. By giving us what faction of Constitutionalism you think defends liberty.
You want a debate. This is a discussion. I'm not here to debate people on what version of constitutionalism you think I belong to or should be categorized in.

To make it simple for you, Democrats believe in socialized medicine and I don't. Democrats believe in gun control. I don't. The Democrats believe the more people they bring into the United States, the more liberal voters it means for them. I don't agree with wholesale citizenship.

The Republicans have had their share of things that made me ask who represents the people that favor Liberty. The income tax, pushed by the Republicans was a plank from the Communist Manifesto. The main stream news media says that the Republican Establishment is on the side of globalists... and I've rejected that my entire life. It was also the Republicans that gave us the 14th Amendment that stripped the Rights from Americans and reduced unalienable Rights to bastardized government granted rights.

I think the most embarrassing thing for the Republican Party was that they expected us to believe they could come up with the so - called "Patriot Act" and have that bill ready to be signed in just over six weeks, but they could not come up with an alternative to Obamacare in six YEARS.

And so, I'm asking the question, who represents the constitutionalists? The above Parties don't represent any faction of constitutionalism as best that I can determine.
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