Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Philosophy and Religion > Philosophy

Philosophy For discussion about general and fundamental problems connected with reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language


Thanks Tree5Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 14th, 2018, 04:57 PM   #1
Mayor of Realville
 
webguy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,525
Reason vs. Faith ?

Uhh , no. That’s the wrong question. But, apparently that needs to be explained to some people.

It is not possible to use or apply reason without faith.
Thanks from Jimmyb
webguy4 is online now  
Old January 14th, 2018, 05:06 PM   #2
RNG
Senior Member
 
RNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Between everywhere
Posts: 28,374
Wrong again.
RNG is offline  
Old January 14th, 2018, 05:12 PM   #3
Mayor of Realville
 
webguy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,525
Reason always starts with axioms. Unprovable statements that must be taken on faith.

Applying reason to reality always takes faith that the universe is reasonable.

Assuming we are capable of reason assumes we have free will.
Thanks from Jimmyb
webguy4 is online now  
Old January 14th, 2018, 05:19 PM   #4
RNG
Senior Member
 
RNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Between everywhere
Posts: 28,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
Reason always starts with axioms. Unprovable statements that must be taken on faith.

Applying reason to reality always takes faith that the universe is reasonable.

Assuming we are capable of reason assumes we have free will.
Axioms are not taken on faith. Most are taken on reproducable observations and the fact that conclusions resulting from these axioms are consistently correct.

Way different than foolishly thinking it's something a burning bush said, or words from some book of fairy tales.
RNG is offline  
Old January 14th, 2018, 05:28 PM   #5
Mayor of Realville
 
webguy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,525
If you really like the “scientific method” all that much, you really should give proper thanks to the Christian men (Bacon, Newton, Galileo, etc), even those not practicing Christians were raised in a Christian world view.
Thanks from Jimmyb
webguy4 is online now  
Old January 14th, 2018, 05:35 PM   #6
Mayor of Realville
 
webguy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by RNG View Post
Axioms are not taken on faith. Most are taken on reproducable observations and the fact that conclusions resulting from these axioms are consistently correct.

Way different than foolishly thinking it's something a burning bush said, or words from some book of fairy tales.
Can you give any specific examples?
webguy4 is online now  
Old January 14th, 2018, 05:37 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 10,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
If you really like the “scientific method” all that much, you really should give proper thanks to the Christian men (Bacon, Newton, Galileo, etc), even those not practicing Christians were raised in a Christian world view.
And don't forget the contributions of the Chinese and the Islamic scholars who advanced science.
Oh, and the Jews, don't leave them out...
goober is online now  
Old January 14th, 2018, 05:42 PM   #8
RNG
Senior Member
 
RNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Between everywhere
Posts: 28,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
If you really like the “scientific method” all that much, you really should give proper thanks to the Christian men (Bacon, Newton, Galileo, etc), even those not practicing Christians were raised in a Christian world view.
They had to pretend or they would have been burned or worse. I seem to remember the theory of a solar-centric system was renounced for fear of that.
RNG is offline  
Old January 14th, 2018, 05:46 PM   #9
RNG
Senior Member
 
RNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Between everywhere
Posts: 28,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
Can you give any specific examples?
Gravity. I just held my pencil up and let go, and sure enough, it fell to the floor.

Given any straight line segment, a circle can be drawn having the segment as radius and one endpoint as center.

There are two for a start. No faith involved.
RNG is offline  
Old January 14th, 2018, 05:49 PM   #10
RNG
Senior Member
 
RNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Between everywhere
Posts: 28,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
And don't forget the contributions of the Chinese and the Islamic scholars who advanced science.
Oh, and the Jews, don't leave them out...
And the arabs that invented the base 10 number system and went all the way to algebra. Oh, those are probably the Islamic scholars you reference above.
RNG is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Philosophy and Religion > Philosophy

Tags
faith, reason



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much more of you of little faith dusty Christianity 46 December 23rd, 2014 05:29 PM
Moyers on Faith & Reason hoosier88 Christianity 0 July 23rd, 2014 08:50 AM
Bigot against Faith Nwolfe35 Philosophy 71 May 29th, 2013 05:20 AM
the reason Jesus is the reason for the season . . . . dadman Philosophy 28 December 18th, 2012 08:39 AM
testimony of faith Rod Religion 15 July 7th, 2007 08:34 PM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.