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Old January 28th, 2018, 06:00 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
The speaker's points are valid, however, he says not everyone is capable of holding down a job that is valued by the market/society and simultaneously says a guaranteed income for all won't work either.

Later, does he conclude that the end is near??
JP has hundreds of videos on line. I am no where near finding his conclusive opinion on the end game for the human race.

My take? Life will never be fair. Some people make more than others.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 06:14 PM   #42
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I am having a thought. We are saying mandatory minimum income won’t work. Maybe we gotta think about what we mean by that.

Here’s an idea. The problem is what to do with the growing indolent class. We gotta do something and it’s gonna cost something. So, how about we offer everyone the mandatory minimum income, but those who don’t do better are not allowed to breed. No more idiocracy. (Movie reference)
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Old January 28th, 2018, 06:37 PM   #43
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Robots making robots is not far away.
Likely true; but it misses the point. Sure, if we start down that road, once you get the first generation of self-manufacturing robots, then it's all downhill - the first gen makes the next gen, incorporates improvements, which manufactures the next gen - you wind up with a fractal pattern of self-improving, self-designing & self-manufacturing robots.

Where does that leave humanity, the presumed object of all this activity? Sure, if all you're concerned about is the raw materials & power to run the fabs & crank out the bots, then environmental issues - water, air, soil, crops, meat - all of that can be dispensed with. If you round up all the surviving humans & put them on textured soya in little artificial habitats, then you can strip the oceans for deuterium & other raw materials, core the earth for heavy metals, disassemble the moon & planets, asteroid belt.

Again - what becomes of humanity in that scenario? Once you're up to planetary engineering - or even @ the level of the solar system (Dyson sphere, anyone?) why would the AIs care about what happens to people?
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Old January 28th, 2018, 06:40 PM   #44
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Likely true; but it misses the point. Sure, if we start down that road, once you get the first generation of self-manufacturing robots, then it's all downhill - the first gen makes the next gen, incorporates improvements, which manufactures the next gen - you wind up with a fractal pattern of self-improving, self-designing & self-manufacturing robots.

Where does that leave humanity, the presumed object of all this activity? Sure, if all you're concerned about is the raw materials & power to run the fabs & crank out the bots, then environmental issues - water, air, soil, crops, meat - all of that can be dispensed with. If you round up all the surviving humans & put them on textured soya in little artificial habitats, then you can strip the oceans for deuterium & other raw materials, core the earth for heavy metals, disassemble the moon & planets, asteroid belt.

Again - what becomes of humanity in that scenario? Once you're up to planetary engineering - or even @ the level of the solar system (Dyson sphere, anyone?) why would the AIs care about what happens to people?
Because they’re programmed to.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 06:49 PM   #45
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Likely true; but it misses the point. Sure, if we start down that road, once you get the first generation of self-manufacturing robots, then it's all downhill - the first gen makes the next gen, incorporates improvements, which manufactures the next gen - you wind up with a fractal pattern of self-improving, self-designing & self-manufacturing robots.

...

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Because they’re programmed to.
The conditions you set up - bots manufacturing bots, designing & manufacturing the next generation of bots, & so on - precludes hard & fast programming. @ some point, we'll have to entrust the design & programming to the AIs anyway - @ the point that machine code is beyond us, or we lose interest in the systems.

& we'll have to design in some flexibility anyway - we don't really want stupid bots - that would defeat the purpose of constructing them in the first place. The point is to have the bots do the heavy lifting for humanity, which under the pessimistic scenarios you seem to favor, means doing all the heavy thinking too.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 06:49 PM   #46
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I am having a thought. We are saying mandatory minimum income won’t work. Maybe we gotta think about what we mean by that.

Here’s an idea. The problem is what to do with the growing indolent class. We gotta do something and it’s gonna cost something. So, how about we offer everyone the mandatory minimum income, but those who don’t do better are not allowed to breed. No more idiocracy. (Movie reference)
So in your view of the future everyone is a slave?
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Old January 28th, 2018, 07:56 PM   #47
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So in your view of the future everyone is a slave?
Manditory minimum wage = mandatory slavery.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 08:01 PM   #48
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So in your view of the future everyone is a slave?
I just made up this idea. But no, not everyone. But everyone who chooses to be a slave looses the right to procreate.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 10:03 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by hoosier88 View Post
Likely true; but it misses the point. Sure, if we start down that road, once you get the first generation of self-manufacturing robots, then it's all downhill - the first gen makes the next gen, incorporates improvements, which manufactures the next gen - you wind up with a fractal pattern of self-improving, self-designing & self-manufacturing robots.

Where does that leave humanity, the presumed object of all this activity? Sure, if all you're concerned about is the raw materials & power to run the fabs & crank out the bots, then environmental issues - water, air, soil, crops, meat - all of that can be dispensed with. If you round up all the surviving humans & put them on textured soya in little artificial habitats, then you can strip the oceans for deuterium & other raw materials, core the earth for heavy metals, disassemble the moon & planets, asteroid belt.

Again - what becomes of humanity in that scenario? Once you're up to planetary engineering - or even @ the level of the solar system (Dyson sphere, anyone?) why would the AIs care about what happens to people?
The short answer is: They probably wouldn't.

We would be interesting to them. On the one hand, we'd be their creators. On the other, they'd perceive us as our own destroyers. Many of earth's systems we've tapped for our survival we've done so in non-sustainable ways, i.e. in unintelligent ways.

At the same time, "enhanced" human beings could be on the rise, and they may commandeer AI machines given that they are part machine.

The coin is flipping in the air at this point in time.
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Old January 29th, 2018, 03:17 AM   #50
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I just made up this idea. But no, not everyone. But everyone who chooses to be a slave looses the right to procreate.
So those that please the masters aren't slaves?
Indolent class?

What happens when unemployment is 95%?
It's simple, markets don't work.
You need a new economic model.
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