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Old May 13th, 2017, 10:32 AM   #201
end capitalism now
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Originally Posted by username View Post
Lenin had Trotsky killed am I correct on that?
Ever read any history on the Russian Revolution of 1917? The bourgeoise business and land owners...and bankers who started the first revolution against the Czar that year in February, did it to cut off the head and stop the bleeding! They had no intentions of extending any reforms besides the ones that benefited their class in particular. And at first they controlled the Army and the police..so they might have gotten away with it, except for the fact that Russia had suffered the heaviest losses of the Great War than any other nation, and the Provisional Government had no intentions of ending continued Russian participation in the War. So, right from early spring, most Russians knew another revolution was necessary; but there were a lot of different forces in play including Marxists and anarchists who were trying to coalesce behind some form of leadership and fight the Government. So, exactly how would you expect Lenin or Trotsky to do this without firing a shot? And then, in the ensuing years, there were counter-attacks from the monied classes and residual monarchists who wanted to restore the Czar to power. Keep in mind that these people knew history, and they knew that within 20 years after the French Revolution, Napolean's grandson became the emperor of France, and they were damned determined that no such thing would happen in Russia!
Trotsky wanted a Socialist nation that was something resembling the Democrat Socialism claims of today if I remember correct. I wonder if Stalin realized or came to a realization in order to actually conduct Marxism, you must control the people through a form of coercion. That coercion being threat of and use of violence.
Our present day governments have police and armies that are using force more often as the years go by because of increasing desperation. Personally, I don't believe the kind of international working class revolution that Lenin and Trotsky believed in, is even possible today. But, don't conflate despotic control of Stalin with Lenin and Trotsky. Stalin had been waiting in the wings and never would have had the chance to rise to power in the Soviet Union if not for counter-attacks financed and led from the US and European powers
What amazes me is to see someone like endtherepublic actually espouse a hope for a totalitarian state that is something, at least as I was taught, resembling the Soviet Union. Now, after reading your reply, do you favor something like that? I hope endtherepublic will reply because I find this fascinating that people could actually see this as something to hope for.
I can't speak for 'endtherepublic', but the Russian Revolution was still a populist movement until well into the 1920's, as power became increasingly centralized under the Kremlin. I myself, don't know if communist revolutions are possible; they are completely impossible when people are totally ignorant about communism and history in general. And that was why educating the people about communism was considered so important prior to/and in the early years of the Russian Revolution. Over time, Stalin (who was almost executed after it was learned he tried to make a deal with the 1917 provisional government) gained power, and since he showed no signs of being much more than an opportunist during a time of chaos, he lucked out...seized the right opportunity to take power, and the Soviet Union took on most of the trappings of authoritarian government. But, one thing that none of the revisionist historians can deny today is that even corrupt, late-stage communist Soviet Union was a more equitable and equal society than present day capitalist Russia...which has one of the world's highest levels of income inequality and growing numbers of homeless people in their cities...just like America!
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