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Old November 1st, 2015, 10:44 AM   #71
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You just made my point. It is forced morality, or as I prefer to phrase it, enlightened self-interest. And not doing good for it's own sake.

And even then one must assume that there is a regulatory framework to prevent out and out dishonesty.
Nah....Morality is enforced by the unfettered market place....It is the onerous regulations (EPA, Union, unrealistic minimum wage, etc.) that disqualifies the smaller competitors that allows the MagaCorps to run amuck.....

MagaCorp wants to maximize it's profits from it's useless widget, that nobody wants, and the stockholders demand a return on their investment.. But what happens if MegaCorp's lobbyists can get a law passed that you must have a widget or be forced to pay a penalty??......Then MagaCorp can charge what ever it wants for it's useless widget....unless Mom & Pop Inc. can come in and make a better widget at slightly less profit margin...Now MegaCorp has to match that, or get it's lobbyist to get the government to pass a regulation barring Mom & Pop Inc. from the marketplace.....

Now did MegaCorp act immorally??....or was it because the government interfered that enabled or encouraged the immoral behavior..??
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Old November 1st, 2015, 10:48 AM   #72
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Nah....Morality is enforced by the unfettered market place....It is the onerous regulations (EPA, Union, unrealistic minimum wage, etc.) that disqualifies the smaller competitors that allows the MagaCorps to run amuck.....

MagaCorp wants to maximize it's profits from it's useless widget, that nobody wants, and the stockholders demand a return on their investment.. But what happens if MegaCorp's lobbyists can get a law passed that you must have a widget or be forced to pay a penalty??......Then MagaCorp can charge what ever it wants for it's useless widget....unless Mom & Pop Inc. can come in and make a better widget at slightly less profit margin...Now MegaCorp has to match that, or get it's lobbyist to get the government to pass a regulation barring Mom & Pop Inc. from the marketplace.....

Now did MegaCorp act immorally??....or was it because the government interfered that enabled or encouraged the immoral behavior..??
Tell that to the too big to fail corps. Why did Canada escape the whole toxic asset meltdown?
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Old November 1st, 2015, 11:01 AM   #73
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The key word in there is reasonable...allowing or making 5 year-olds to work 16 hours a day 7 days a week, is not reasonable.....just like expecting your own economy to compete with $15 per hr minimum wages on a global economy, is not reasonable....In today's world economy the cost of labor will always be trying to balance itself....
The truth is that capitalism cannot function in a rational and fair way w/o government intervention, and even still, it does not function in a rational way. It is in the nature of capitalism to grow and expand uncontrollably. Nothing is off limits: families, individuals, the environment, nothing. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high?
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Old November 1st, 2015, 11:07 AM   #74
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Tell that to the too big to fail corps. Why did Canada escape the whole toxic asset meltdown?
I do not support at all the idea that a Corp is too big to fail....Bailing out outfits like the Bush Administrations did, is exactly what created the TeaParty movement.....

That is the perfect example of the Government interfering with the marketplace.....If we would have left GM and Chizzler fail...what would have happened??....Mercedes, Honda, VW, Toyota and others would have bought up the assets and absorbed the market share and still kept the vendors in business....Only ones who would have got hurt would have been the shareholders and the UAW....Who support the Dems....and big Government...
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Old November 1st, 2015, 11:09 AM   #75
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I do not support at all the idea that a Corp is too big to fail....Bailing out outfits like the Bush Administrations did, is exactly what created the TeaParty movement.....

That is the perfect example of the Government interfering with the marketplace.....If we would have left GM and Chizzler fail...what would have happened??....Mercedes, Honda, VW, Toyota and others would have bought up the assets and absorbed the market share and still kept the vendors in business....Only ones who would have got hurt would have been the shareholders and the UAW....Who support the Dems....and big Government...
That's the ONLY rightwing "interference with corporations" you can think of? You think that removing taxes, EPA regulations, FDA regulations, Labor Laws, etc. isn't interfering with workers and Americans? You think deregulated corporations HELP the economy? Where are all those American jobs they promised when they had their taxes basically removed?
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Old November 1st, 2015, 11:10 AM   #76
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I do not support at all the idea that a Corp is too big to fail....Bailing out outfits like the Bush Administrations did, is exactly what created the TeaParty movement.....

That is the perfect example of the Government interfering with the marketplace.....If we would have left GM and Chizzler fail...what would have happened??....Mercedes, Honda, VW, Toyota and others would have bought up the assets and absorbed the market share and still kept the vendors in business....Only ones who would have got hurt would have been the shareholders and the UAW....Who support the Dems....and big Government...
That was after the fact. It was lack of intelligent government regulation that caused the banks to get into the position that they needed bailing out.

Whether the bail-out or letting them fail was the greater harm is a tough call, IMO. Vindictively, I too would have loved to let them fail, but I'm not sure it would not have been worse for the economy.
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Old November 1st, 2015, 11:16 AM   #77
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That was after the fact. It was lack of intelligent government regulation that caused the banks to get into the position that they needed bailing out.

Whether the bail-out or letting them fail was the greater harm is a tough call, IMO. Vindictively, I too would have loved to let them fail, but I'm not sure it would not have been worse for the economy.
It was the deliberate REMOVAL of a regulation to STOP banks from being investors. The republicans REMOVED Glass Steagall and NO one except Bernie is calling for it to be put back into place.
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Old November 1st, 2015, 11:33 AM   #78
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The truth is that capitalism cannot function in a rational and fair way w/o government intervention, and even still, it does not function in a rational way. It is in the nature of capitalism to grow and expand uncontrollably. Nothing is off limits: families, individuals, the environment, nothing. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high?
That is mostly dribble......Of course there has to be rules, and rules that are sensible and enforced.....Such as one can not steal another companies assets or bank accounts or ideas...and if one does the injured party must have prompt unimpeded access to courts to promptly recover those assets..and hold the guilty party liable for damages and be able to collect those damages.....That is crucial for a free market system to function...Other than that it is the market place that enforces rational.......

Think of "Pure Capitalism" as nature's way.....The strong eat the weak...The cheetah eats the Gnu.....The weak and sick animals are culled out of the herd...the herd is now stronger....Do the cheetahs get bigger??...No...they are limited by the number of Gnus....Same thing happens in Pure Capitalism....Business' compete for available dollars from consumers...The sloppy, over-priced or slack business' are culled out by the consumer who demands quality and service at the best price....Thereby insuring the quality of the remaining business........Does this happen in reality??....No......You need the rules I posted above...and that necessity breeds the corruption...

I am advocating free market capitalism, not the pesudo-capitalistic systems practiced by the marriage of government and industry....that is not capitalism
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Old November 1st, 2015, 11:35 AM   #79
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That is mostly dribble......Of course there has to be rules, and rules that are sensible and enforced.....Such as one can not steal another companies assets or bank accounts or ideas...and if one does the injured party must have prompt unimpeded access to courts to promptly recover those assets..and hold the guilty party liable for damages and be able to collect those damages.....That is crucial for a free market system to function...Other than that it is the market place that enforces rational.......

Think of "Pure Capitalism" as nature's way.....The strong eat the weak...The cheetah eats the Gnu.....The weak and sick animals are culled out of the herd...the herd is now stronger....Do the cheetahs get bigger??...No...they are limited by the number of Gnus....Same thing happens in Pure Capitalism....Business' compete for available dollars from consumers...The sloppy, over-priced or slack business' are culled out by the consumer who demands quality and service at the best price....Thereby insuring the quality of the remaining business........Does this happen in reality??....No......You need the rules I posted above...and that necessity breeds the corruption...

I am advocating free market capitalism, not the pesudo-capitalistic systems practiced by the marriage of government and industry....that is not capitalism
So laissez-faire, dog-eat-dog capitalism right?
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Old November 1st, 2015, 11:46 AM   #80
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It was the deliberate REMOVAL of a regulation to STOP banks from being investors. The republicans REMOVED Glass Steagall and NO one except Bernie is calling for it to be put back into place.
More partisan horse-shit for LW.....It was the Financial Services Act of 1999 that was signed into law by Bill Clinton (D) that undid most of Glass-Steagall......Yeah...I know it was Republicans who sponsored it but it was Clinton who signed it....And, it is one of the few things I agree with dip-shit Bernie on...
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