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Old November 12th, 2015, 11:27 AM   #41
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Without any reference to your virulent anti-semitism, it still has nothing to do with fiat currencies.

I asked you to list countries that don't use a fiat currency and you went on a Jew-hating tangent. Not a great answer.
Fiat currencies have everything to do with collusion. Media has everything to do with protecting the scam from scrutiny. Jews are simply the common denominator.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 12:14 PM   #42
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Fiat currencies have everything to do with collusion. Media has everything to do with protecting the scam from scrutiny. Jews are simply the common denominator.
Who uses and/or where are non-fiat currencies used? You keep dodging that question.

If you don't have a better way, don't bitch all the time.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 12:25 PM   #43
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Who uses and/or where are non-fiat currencies used? You keep dodging that question.

If you don't have a better way, don't bitch all the time.
It's not that fiat currencies are that bad, it's how they are structured. Remember "The devil is in the details".

JFK proposed that instead of paying the private Fed banksters trillions in interest on money issued out of thin air, the treasury could issue it directly, bypassing the banksters. I believe he even issued an executive order to that effect.......shortly before a bullet passed through his skull.

But non-fiat currencies were used all over the world up until fiat banking came along. Most used gold and silver. The "tally sticks" worked wonderfully too.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 01:07 PM   #44
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It's not that fiat currencies are that bad, it's how they are structured. Remember "The devil is in the details".

Please suggest structural improvements in the fiat currency system(s).

JFK proposed that instead of paying the private Fed banksters trillions in interest on money issued out of thin air, the treasury could issue it directly, bypassing the banksters. I believe he even issued an executive order to that effect.......shortly before a bullet passed through his skull.

As I said before, this is not a discussion of the Fed. That is a separate topic.

But non-fiat currencies were used all over the world up until fiat banking came along. Most used gold and silver. The "tally sticks" worked wonderfully too.
With the explosion of GDPs, how were countries supposed to keep buying sufficient gold or silver to back the amount of currency needed to express the productivity?

And I won't g through it again but there isn't enough gold at surface in all the world to back just the USD, so how can the USD be backed?
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Old November 12th, 2015, 01:55 PM   #45
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With the explosion of GDPs, how were countries supposed to keep buying sufficient gold or silver to back the amount of currency needed to express the productivity?

And I won't g through it again but there isn't enough gold at surface in all the world to back just the USD, so how can the USD be backed?
We don't even use pennies anymore. A car doesn't have to cost $40k. A house doesn't have to cost $500k. Inflation caused by money creation.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 02:13 PM   #46
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We don't even use pennies anymore. A car doesn't have to cost $40k. A house doesn't have to cost $500k. Inflation caused by money creation.
So, a car costs $4k and you make $1.20/hr. Who gains? As long as the ratio holds life is good.

It's when the car costs $40k and you still make $1.20/hr that the pain hits. Many here argue that is happening now. I don't see it myself.

You can't even really compare the hours of labor needed do buy a car today to doing so 20 years ago because of "technical inflation". That is, the car today is technically superior to the car 20 years ago so takes more hours of labor to buy.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 02:22 PM   #47
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So, a car costs $4k and you make $1.20/hr. Who gains? As long as the ratio holds life is good.

It's when the car costs $40k and you still make $1.20/hr that the pain hits. Many here argue that is happening now. I don't see it myself.

You can't even really compare the hours of labor needed do buy a car today to doing so 20 years ago because of "technical inflation". That is, the car today is technically superior to the car 20 years ago so takes more hours of labor to buy.
My point was if you keep increasing the money supply how can you ever expect to back it by anything. Not to mention that if every dollar is created in debt how is it ever going to get to zero?
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Old November 12th, 2015, 02:57 PM   #48
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With the explosion of GDPs, how were countries supposed to keep buying sufficient gold or silver to back the amount of currency needed to express the productivity?

And I won't g through it again but there isn't enough gold at surface in all the world to back just the USD, so how can the USD be backed?
Up until the end of 1964, our curency was sorta backed by silver. You could exchange paper money for dimes, quarters and halves that were 90% silver. I can't remember the exact number, but I think a dollar of such coins had .72 troy ounces of silver then. A troy ounce of silver today is around $14.50.
In 1964 a gallon of gas cost about a silver quarter. today that silver quarter will buy a little more than a half gallon of gas.

The size of the economy being too large for gold or silver in pure form, coins could be diluted. That is instead of being 90% like they were before 1865, they could be say 20% silver and the rest copper. The advantage of having a currency backed in metal is that it puts constraints on government preventing them from spending so much on warfare and such.

But a debt based economy can have advantages too if run responsibly and honestly...cough cough. The devil is in the details.

The current system works kinda like this:
RNG borrows 200K to buy a home. He gets a 30 year loan. Interest and principal on 200K over 30 years comes to 600K. As the principal and interest is paid to the bank (banking system), they "retire" the principal and pocket the interest.
So...
We trust the banks to retire (remove from circulation, destroy)the 200K principal and let them keep the 400K for the service of preforming minor bookkeeping tasks.

As you can see, the banks are roughly pocketing 2/3 of the debt economy.

Multiply this by the number of Americans who have loans and you're talking some serious coin.

Now there is federal spending too. Congress agrees to borrow say 500 billion. Instead of going to the treasury and having them issue the money into circulation, they go to the banksters and the banksters go to the treasury and it's issued into circulation then RNG and Pilgrim pay the banksters interest on it.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 03:07 PM   #49
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My point was if you keep increasing the money supply how can you ever expect to back it by anything. Not to mention that if every dollar is created in debt how is it ever going to get to zero?
If an hour of your labor was worth $1.2, would an oz of gold still be worth $1109.00 as it was yesterday, or would it be $2000.00 like it was about 18 months ago, or would it be $28 like when it was pegged, (official transactions, US only)?

ie, it doesn't matter. And gold is just a commodity so effectively it is a fiat substance too, only worth what someone thinks it is worth.
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Old November 12th, 2015, 03:16 PM   #50
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If an hour of your labor was worth $1.2, would an oz of gold still be worth $1109.00 as it was yesterday, or would it be $2000.00 like it was about 18 months ago, or would it be $28 like when it was pegged, (official transactions, US only)?

ie, it doesn't matter. And gold is just a commodity so effectively it is a fiat substance too, only worth what someone thinks it is worth.
I hear what you're saying my main opposition is that the government can control the money supply, and taxation. If say gold was the back for a currency and its price became to high a different one would come up. Or it could get fractionalized.

There has to be a solution.
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