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Old May 7th, 2016, 12:12 AM   #11
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Feels so powerful, doesn't it? Self-appointing ourselves to the position of the Spokesperson for We.
How many people give two shits about what franklin posts here or anywhere else on this site? Ask yourself that question before you try and get all high and mighty.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 12:41 AM   #12
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When I was your age, I thought somewhat like you. Then I experienced life.

Ironically you probably would have made a great Hitler Youth. You are so nationalistic and enthusiastic about following rules. This is one area that I was never like you. I only have loyalty to what makes sense to me, and follow rules that make sense to me. I have zero respect for my nation and for its laws.

What is moral is subjective, and you call Nazi Germany immoral because its morals differ from yours. When I say that the Germans were moral, I don't mean that they had my morality, but rather that at least they had some kind of morality which at least made them treat each other with some basic level of decency. The West today has no form of morality at all.

I disagree with racism, but I don't see it as immoral as much as misguided. Orthodox Judaism has about the same level of racism as Nazism had. Racism is much like your nationalism, a form allegiance that makes no sense.

By the way, have you read Mein Kampf? You should. Hitler was much more intelligent than most leaders today (except maybe Putin). I think Hitler's anti-democratic and militaristic sentiments were well justified by the circumstances at that time.

I have no faith in humanity, of course. You just need to experience more life to see this. It is also worth noting that all moral religions in history share this view. Before Christianity went to hell (in the 1800s), it also had no faith in humanity. Of all people today, Americans are the absolute worst, the scum of the earth.

Based on your comments on Mao, I think you also need to learn some more history. Mao was a pure opportunist who never cared about anyone but himself (just like Trump). I know this not only from history but also from my Chinese friends.
I actually used to be like you but then I grew up. I joined the military and quickly had to become a man, which cemented my views of the world.

I've been through months of gruelling training pushing my mind, body and soul to their limits. Before I've even been to war I've already lost a friend. So don't talk to me like I'm a child, like I haven't thought hard about life, or experienced hardship.

You are arrogant and selfish. One should never be their own moral guide and template. How can you care about others if you can't even accept their beliefs, their rules and their traditions. I am not so narcissistic as to think I know what's best for myself or others, nor would it ever be my place to even think that, in a society where we honour unity through compromise, bringing everyone's beliefs together to form a free society ruled by law.

It may not be perfect, but the rule of law is the best system in the world. No question.

There are some things we can all agree are immoral. One of them is racism. This is some basic common sense. The Germans were racist, and I mean extremely racist, even for their time. Therefore, they were immoral. Isn't logic great?

Yes, I read Mein Kampf two years ago.

Moral religions? As opposed to immoral religions? Figure out your terms before you throw something down on the page.

Americans are immoral??? Are you kidding me??? You must batshit insane.

What about ISIS, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Neo Nazis, gang bangers
or serial killers? You're saying that the average American is worse than these people? I think you're the one who needs to experience life, by leaving your bomb shelter in the middle of nowhere and actually meeting some people.

Mao was a university prof living a decent life who left it all behind to fight the Japanese with the Communist Party and stayed as it leader even as the government turned on them. He lead his people in a death march, keeping his troops morale high by carrying his fair share of weight and joking with the men. Sounds like a pretty committed and loyal leader to me.

Lastly, unless those people were politicians they wouldn't have known Mao personally and thus can't possibly know his personality or motivations by simply having lived during his reign.

Last edited by locke23; May 7th, 2016 at 08:13 AM.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 08:34 AM   #13
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Unlike most members of modern culture, locke23 is actually dangerous. That is a complement in a way because it means that he is capable of action, but only harmful action. Luckily there aren't many like him left.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 08:40 AM   #14
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Unlike most members of modern culture, locke23 is actually dangerous. That is a complement in a way because it means that he is capable of action, but only harmful action. Luckily there aren't many like him left.
Harmful action? I'm defending my country, I'm promoting the principles that make our two countries so great, and I'm helping those in need throughout the world. How is that harmful?

If you're referring to some sort of political action, you'd again be wrong because I will never take any sort of political action. I've sworn against involving myself in politics, as it could compromise my neutrality and objectivity as a soldier.

The people who are harmful are those like you who would leave someone to die simply because you disagree with them about something.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 08:46 AM   #15
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Harmful action? I'm defending my country, I'm promoting the principles that make our two countries so great, and I'm helping those in need throughout the world. How is that harmful?

If you're referring to some sort of political action, you'd again be wrong because I will never take any sort of political action. I've sworn against involving myself in politics, as it could compromise my neutrality and objectivity as a soldier.

The people who are harmful are those like you who would leave someone to die simply because you disagree with them about something.
Your principles and mine are probably mostly opposite. Your "help" to the world is almost certainly harmful based on my values. And you won't be in the military forever.

Unlike you, I am not interested in imposing my values on the world. I believe in minding my own business. I trust that God (the forces of history) will put an end to your horrible culture without my help.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 08:57 AM   #16
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Your principles and mine are probably mostly opposite. Your "help" to the world is almost certainly harmful based on my values. And you won't be in the military forever.

Unlike you, I am not interested in imposing my values on the world. I believe in minding my own business. I trust that God (the forces of history) will put an end to your horrible culture without my help.
My values are a lot more popular than yours. I serve the people, first of my country, and then of the world. And so, you're not going to divert me from my path.

Simply leaving things alone and only caring for yourself or those extremely close to you, that to me is selfish if you have the knowledge and resources to do otherwise. I gave up numerous scholarships and a chance to study history at a prestigious school to go to RMC, because I realized that if I didn't have a job where I could dedicate my life to helping others, I wouldn't be able to live with myself. I was raised to believe that the best life one can live is dedicate your life to serving others:

1. Family
2. Country
3. Fellow man

That is the code I live by.

I intend to be in the military for a long time, and I try not to look too far into the future, it distracts from the now. My father always tells me that I have to live in the present to live life to the fullest.

I am not imposing anything, and certainly not my ideals. They are the ideals accepted by the United Nations. I do what I must to protect my country and if need be, enforce international law. What I think is irrelevant, I would do my duty even if I disagreed with the law and principles of my country (it just happens that I don't). I don't matter, you don't matter, all that matters is the mission, and the mission is freedom and security.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 10:00 AM   #17
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I,ll disagree with a bit differently than Franklin.

You say you choose democratic law as the highest morality. Then, oddly enuf you site examples of democratically elected immorality. Making my point for me, which is, that there is a higher morality that the governments of men can only aspire to and never attain. Your own examples attest to this, that you know, you just know, when a law has made a terrible choice.

Slavery was once legal, by democratic law, but never moral.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 10:11 AM   #18
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I,ll disagree with a bit differently than Franklin.

You say you choose democratic law as the highest morality. Then, oddly enuf you site examples of democratically elected immorality. Making my point for me, which is, that there is a higher morality that the governments of men can only aspire to and never attain. Your own examples attest to this, that you know, you just know, when a law has made a terrible choice.

Slavery was once legal, by democratic law, but never moral.
I've already said there are exceptions to this rule, as there are no absolutes in life. I find that whether these exceptions are moral or immoral are usually pretty easy to figure out.
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Old May 8th, 2016, 08:19 AM   #19
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Morals are BULLSHIT !!!!!! They're a moving target and completely relativistic. There are very few absolutes. What is or isn't "moral" usually depends on the situation and the people involved.

Religion based morality is the worst, because now you're being told what or is isn't "moral" based a person's particular interpretation of whatever parts and pieces of religious text they choose to believe in.

Give me an ethical person any day.
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Old May 8th, 2016, 10:51 PM   #20
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Simply leaving things alone and only caring for yourself or those extremely close to you, that to me is selfish if you have the knowledge and resources to do otherwise.
You are misrepresenting my position. Reread my original post

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I am not imposing anything, and certainly not my ideals. They are the ideals accepted by the United Nations. I do what I must to protect my country and if need be, enforce international law.
Here you contradict yourself. First you say that aren't imposing anything, and then you admit to imposing the ideals of the United Nation, and imposing international law.

You and I will always be enemies because I want to be free to live in a moral community and you feel some strange obligation to impose popular international immorality on everyone.
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