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Old February 25th, 2018, 07:24 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
I didn't make the claim or argument that it isn't/wasn't a political ideology (or part of one).


I think the Democrats, or the Left, wants to & is trying to bring it back (not necessarily in the same way as we had it during the pre-Civil War era, BTW).


Alright.
Just a personal opinion of yours, no big deal.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 07:31 AM   #12
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Are you totally unaware of the party shift that happened in the 20th century? You know when all those Southern Democrats became Republicans and carried on with their racist bullshit......
I am aware of the myths/spin/distortion pertaining to that & Dinesh D'souza has done a pretty good job of dispelling it.

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And those Radical Republicans that were activists to abolish slavery, yeah they were not present day conservative Republicans.
How do you figure this? Show me one piece of evidence of this of one present day conservative Republican.

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I cant believe that even has to be said.
Well guess what, I don't care.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 07:41 AM   #13
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For one thing, it's not a law; it's something that bars certain laws and it's part of the Bill of Rights.

The reason the 2nd Amendment is there, ought to remain there for eternity, and ought to be recognized as a human right worldwide for eternity, is because we exist in a reality where we're mortal human beings who can and do make a weapons or other harmful things to be violent with one another, for the purpose of repressing or destroying each other. Weapons and other harmful things are not things that didn't exist prior to & spawned into existence after the Bill of Rights was written - I mean, is that what you people think? Or, do you guys also think that speech, the press, religion, or people assembling (peacefully) were things that did not exist before the 1st Amendment was written, either & does the same go with the rest of the Bill of Rights? If so at least you guys are consistent with your distorted or backwards perception of reality.

No law can be written to protect us from everything, even if it's a law that places everyone under perpetual house arrest; even then, all it takes is for someone who makes the choice to ignore such a law, pick up a 2x4 or stone, go to someone else's house, and bash their head in. All you do when you pass laws restricting or banning people from keeping & bearing of arms is to make it much more difficult for some people to protect themselves against being the victims of attacks, such as what we're seeing happen repeatedly in schools, or movie theaters, or night clubs, etc. There's a very good reason for why we're "stuck" (as you so scornfully put it) with it & the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Yeah, there have been attempts to assign it stupid meanings with huge support amongst morons for it, such as that "people" doesn't really mean people, or "regulated" means the contemporary commandeered & repurposed version & that different context; and yes they do produce disastrous results as a result of the Gun-Free School Zones Act signed into law by George H.W. Bush that has made all our school children very vulnerable to such attacks; and yes, this stupid law does need to be repealed before it happens yet again.
It's a stupid law, in case you missed it, the constitution is called law too.
So much for your attempt to appear educated.

98% of the time a gun is used in a crime, it's to victimize someone, about 2% of gun use is "protective"....over 30,000 people died from bullet wounds last year, very few of them were bad guys.

Now what actually works to reduce violence is banning guns, because allowing people to buy machines designed to kill people results in more people being killed.

The Second Amendment is one of the stupidest laws ever ratified.
It's a part of America, like unprotected sex with strangers, it makes us feel good, and it makes a lot of people die. And it's really stupid, but this nation is chock full of morons, so we have to put up with shit like the Second Amendment, for a while at least....
Because you have the right to remain stupid....
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Last edited by goober; February 25th, 2018 at 07:43 AM.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 07:58 AM   #14
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Just a personal opinion of yours, no big deal.
Well no, not just a personal opinion of mine; it's a pattern I consistently observe. I suppose I may have come across as sounding a bit misleading by virtue of neglecting to put better effort in bringing up the Republican's role in being just as culpable. What I mean is that it's the Democrats who historically were the overt proponents of preserving the institution of slavery, 3/5ths of a person, etc., and they're the ones who are trying to implement Leftist/socialist ideology, which is in essence a form of slavery, by virtue of trying to force the individual to take a back seat to the collective, but it's modern day Republicans who have been responsible, or at least complicit, in trying to strip away the 2nd Amendment, which is in a manner of speaking & for one thing, our insurance policy against being enslaved.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 09:24 AM   #15
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It's a stupid law, in case you missed it, the constitution is called law too.
Well you might be correct about it being called law too somewhere or in some context, but I don't see any definition that seems to make that case & definition # 7 explicitly states that they're different: "an act of the supreme legislative body of a state or nation, as distinguished from the constitution." (source: Law | Define Law at Dictionary.com)

My main focus wasn't to quibble about semantics, it was to focus on the point that what the effective function of the 2nd Amendment is to prohibit some law (would saying an "act" in place of "law" be better?) from being created that would ban or restrict the keeping & bearing of arms.

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So much for your attempt to appear educated.
I don't care what I appear to be and I'm not attempting to appear as anything; this is just diversionary & ad hom type of garbage and that's all I'm going to say about that, because I'm not what's important; the message I'm trying to convey is what I think is important.

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98% of the time a gun is used in a crime, it's to victimize someone, about 2% of gun use is "protective"....over 30,000 people died from bullet wounds last year, very few of them were bad guys.
Maybe things would be different and better without any gun bans or restrictions, since the bad guys wouldn't have a target rich environment.

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Now what actually works to reduce violence is banning guns, because allowing people to buy machines designed to kill people results in more people being killed.
No it doesn't; violence tends to remain the same & even increase. I think there's more to it, though; for example there seems to be a strong connection between antidepressants and mass shooters; there's also the damage to the economy essentially caused by government that's too big, resulting in loss of jobs, loss of homes, poverty, etc., which in turn results in many people resorting to things like crime and substance abuse, which in turn leads to even more crime.

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The Second Amendment is one of the stupidest laws ever ratified.
No it isn't.

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It's a part of America,
Yeah it is! USA! USA! USA! USA!

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like unprotected sex with strangers, it makes us feel good, and it makes a lot of people die. And it's really stupid, but this nation is chock full of morons, so we have to put up with shit like the Second Amendment, for a while at least....
Because you have the right to remain stupid....
I had a friend/neighbor back when I was in high school who accidentally shot and killed himself (that was after I graduated from high school & I don't remember if he graduated or not). To give you an idea of what kind of person he was, I recall one time when I was at his house he was trying to start one chainsaw by connecting the spark plug cable from another chainsaw and pulling the pullcord on it; he didn't at least try to ground the two chainsaws together, he didn't get that there's a timing component involved in the system, but he was convinced it would work. Needless to say, neither one ever started up for him. Back in high school he was also buddies with someone else from our high school who accidentally shot himself with a gun in the neck.

Tell me this: if our public schools trained students on how to properly use guns, and how to be safe & responsible in handling them, do you think these two characters would've been individuals who thought they were know-it-alls who would've shot themselves? Do you think if our public education system were better, he would've still tried to start one chainsaw with another?

I think one of the reasons we have problems with so-called "underage" drinking, and so many people with drinking problems is because of the drinking age; it makes teenagers think it makes them cool to drink beer because some victimless crime law dictates to them that they're not allowed to. I know, because I myself was once a moronic teenager (but I didn't actually drink beer because didn't like the taste; I drank whiskey). BTW what if the alcoholic beverage industry was actually behind the push for a drinking age, knowing that it would have the opposite effect and create more customers for them?

Yes I know, you're wondering what does alcohol or a drinking age with this thread & I'm getting to that now: in an analogous fashion that drinking age laws actually end up producing the opposite effect, what if gun laws do something similar? What if the reason that black market guns are so popular is because it makes people think they're badasses in a similar way it makes teenagers think it's cool to drink (same with cigarettes, btw), and it leads to problems from being reckless with guns to committing crimes using guns?
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Old February 25th, 2018, 09:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Neil View Post
I didn't make the claim or argument that it isn't/wasn't a political ideology (or part of one).


I think the Democrats, or the Left, wants to & is trying to bring it back (not necessarily in the same way as we had it during the pre-Civil War era, BTW).


Alright.


WHAT? YOU think Democrats want to bring back slavery?? Where the HECK does that come from?
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Old February 25th, 2018, 09:32 AM   #17
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Right wingers conveniently misrepresent the Second Amendment as an absolute. There are no absolutes in life. Never was.
That's why they are called amendments. Because they are not absolute.

They can be amended.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 09:35 AM   #18
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LOL

The left, they want only the police (who they hate) to be armed.

The 2nd is about the Right of self defense.

As my sig says: When seconds count the police are minutes away
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Old February 25th, 2018, 09:39 AM   #19
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It's a stupid law, in case you missed it, the constitution is called law too.
So much for your attempt to appear educated.

Yes, we all get it, you hate the Constitution and the Founders.


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98% of the time a gun is used in a crime, it's to victimize someone, about 2% of gun use is "protective"....over 30,000 people died from bullet wounds last year, very few of them were bad guys.

Suicides, the majority are suicides. They'll find other means and methods.


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Now what actually works to reduce violence is banning guns, because allowing people to buy machines designed to kill people results in more people being killed.
Yes, you have previously outed yousrself as a total gun grabber.


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The Second Amendment is one of the stupidest laws ever ratified.
It's a part of America, like unprotected sex with strangers, it makes us feel good, and it makes a lot of people die. And it's really stupid, but this nation is chock full of morons, so we have to put up with shit like the Second Amendment, for a while at least....
Because you have the right to remain stupid....

Yes, you have a right to remain stupid, but that right ends at our rights. And more drivel too. And see my first comment.
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Last edited by Mythbuster; February 25th, 2018 at 09:43 AM.
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Old February 25th, 2018, 09:44 AM   #20
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This business about "slave patrols is in no way expressed in that earlier draft.

During the revolutionary war, individuals fought the torries one on one for the protection of their private property. The amendment speaks to to this. Remember the british militay had the right to use people's houses and eat their food. This was diectly forbid in the constitution and the right to bear arms supports that.
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