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Old April 23rd, 2018, 06:42 AM   #21
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In short your defending Communist totalitarian regimes by saying it was really the Wests fault for not acquiescing to them.
NO, I'm saying that the communist revolution was subjected to attack right from the outset by combined forces that had only one thing in common: that a successful workers and peasants revolution anywhere would endanger their ways of doing business and running governments. So, as things developed, the dilution of communism and the trend towards dictatorship could be seen as inevitable. An egalitarian, non-hierarchical government doesn't function when it's under attack.
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Old April 23rd, 2018, 08:38 AM   #22
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NO, I'm saying that the communist revolution was subjected to attack right from the outset by combined forces that had only one thing in common: that a successful workers and peasants revolution anywhere would endanger their ways of doing business and running governments. So, as things developed, the dilution of communism and the trend towards dictatorship could be seen as inevitable. An egalitarian, non-hierarchical government doesn't function when it's under attack.
Yeah, thanks for proving what i said
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Old April 26th, 2018, 08:14 AM   #23
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Yeah, thanks for proving what i said
I have always had my misgivings about Marx&Engels notion that the coming international workers revolution would end all wars, all national governments and their nationalistic divides, and usher in a new world of equal rights and wealth-sharing all over the world!

And, as I've mentioned previously, it seems equally obvious that the bourgeoise...or at least the petty bourgeoise capitalist employees of the superrich were reading Marx and Lenin and Trotsky and understood full well that the fight between communism and capitalism was global, and so they worked right from the very start to make sure that Marx's conception of the revolution could not happen. By the time Russia and nearby republics and then China had state communist governments, those leaders had already made enough compromises with capitalism to ensure a standoff or uneasy peace for the coming decades, that would allow only proxy wars and refrain from direct combat.

It sounds impossible even if we're just talking about Europe...which was 99% of Marx's focus! Were the early Marxists..or even the Anarchist followers of Bachunin and Rosa Luxemburg ever intending local council government only, with no borders, tariffs, and a free flow of people and goods anywhere in the world?

In our time, wars on terror and the highly selective (usually oil-based) responsibility to protect US/NATO principles have directly caused mass migrations out of the Mid-East, Africa and Afghanistan; just wait until increased heating of the planet makes it near-impossible to grow food any longer near the equator, and there is an attempt by hundreds of millions in the global south to move into cooler mid and higher latitudes! Twelve years ago, this was the theme of Gwyn Dyer's warning - "Climate Wars" which featured his confidential interviews with CIA officials during the Bush White House. So, the forces that rule over us are already aware of looming crises and disasters that are coming, and by their lack of action, it doesn't seem like they are promising anything more than a massive genocide or cull of the surplus human population.

So, if the delusional human population that lives in this world is to survive( along with most other advanced life) capitalism will have to end, because it is cancer-like in the way that it expands and grows exponentially devouring resources and even people themselves; but the socialist non-materialistic solution will have to be ecologically limited and resource-driven...a political and economic system that either forces or inspires people to live within the means of what the planet can allow and sustain permanently. So, I'm not a Marxist! Because Marx and his followers have not been much better at dealing with nature than the capitalists have!

Does this mean we're all doomed? If that is the most likely answer, it's time to kick the Al Gores off the stage and deal with it directly and honestly, rather than just keep deluding and failing our way to extinction! More and more serious climate researchers and ecologists are saying as much now, like this guy:

'We're doomed': Mayer Hillman on the climate reality no one else will dare mention
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...l-dare-mention



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“We’re doomed,” says Mayer Hillman with such a beaming smile that it takes a moment for the words to sink in. “The outcome is death, and it’s the end of most life on the planet because we’re so dependent on the burning of fossil fuels. There are no means of reversing the process which is melting the polar ice caps. And very few appear to be prepared to say so.”

Hillman, an 86-year-old social scientist and senior fellow emeritus of the Policy Studies Institute, does say so. His bleak forecast of the consequence of runaway climate change, he says without fanfare, is his “last will and testament”. His last intervention in public life. “I’m not going to write anymore because there’s nothing more that can be said,” he says when I first hear him speak to a stunned audience at the University of East Anglia late last year.

From Malthus to the Millennium Bug, apocalyptic thinking has a poor track record. But when it issues from Hillman, it may be worth paying attention. Over nearly 60 years, his research has used factual data to challenge policymakers’ conventional wisdom. In 1972, he criticised out-of-town shopping centres more than 20 years before the government changed planning rules to stop their spread. In 1980, he recommended halting the closure of branch line railways – only now are some closed lines reopening. In 1984, he proposed energy ratings for houses – finally adopted as government policy in 2007. And, more than 40 years ago, he presciently challenged society’s pursuit of economic growth.

When we meet at his converted coach house in London, his classic Dawes racer still parked hopefully in the hallway (a stroke and a triple heart bypass mean he is – currently – forbidden from cycling), Hillman is anxious we are not side-tracked by his best-known research, which challenged the supremacy of the car.

“With doom ahead, making a case for cycling as the primary mode of transport is almost irrelevant,” he says. “We’ve got to stop burning fossil fuels. So many aspects of life depend on fossil fuels, except for music and love and education and happiness. These things, which hardly use fossil fuels, are what we must focus on.”


While the focus of Hillman’s thinking for the last quarter-century has been on climate change, he is best known for his work on road safety. He spotted the damaging impact of the car on the freedoms and safety of those without one – most significantly, children – decades ago. Some of his policy prescriptions have become commonplace – such as 20mph speed limits – but we’ve failed to curb the car’s crushing of children’s liberty. In 1971, 80% of British seven- and eight-year-old children went to school on their own; today it’s virtually unthinkable that a seven-year-old would walk to school without an adult. As Hillman has pointed out, we’ve removed children from danger rather than removing danger from children – and filled roads with polluting cars on school runs. He calculated that escorting children took 900m adult hours in 1990, costing the economy £20bn each year. It will be even more expensive today.

Our society’s failure to comprehend the true cost of cars has informed Hillman’s view on the difficulty of combatting climate change. But he insists that I must not present his thinking on climate change as “an opinion”. The data is clear; the climate is warming exponentially. The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicts that the world on its current course will warm by 3C by 2100. Recent revised climate modelling suggested a best estimate of 2.8C but scientists struggle to predict the full impact of the feedbacks from future events such as methane being released by the melting of the permafrost.

Hillman is amazed that our thinking rarely stretches beyond 2100. “This is what I find so extraordinary when scientists warn that the temperature could rise to 5C or 8C. What, and stop there? What legacies are we leaving for future generations? In the early 21st century, we did as good as nothing in response to climate change. Our children and grandchildren are going to be extraordinarily critical.”

Global emissions were static in 2016 but the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was confirmed as beyond 400 parts per million, the highest level for at least three million years (when sea levels were up to 20m higher than now). Concentrations can only drop if we emit no carbon dioxide whatsoever, says Hillman. “Even if the world went zero-carbon today that would not save us because we’ve gone past the point of no return.”

Although Hillman has not flown for more than 20 years as part of a personal commitment to reducing carbon emissions, he is now scornful of individual action which he describes as “as good as futile”. By the same logic, says Hillman, national action is also irrelevant “because Britain’s contribution is minute. Even if the government were to go to zero carbon it would make almost no difference.”

Instead, says Hillman, the world’s population must globally move to zero emissions across agriculture, air travel, shipping, heating homes – every aspect of our economy – and reduce our human population too. Can it be done without a collapse of civilisation? “I don’t think so,” says Hillman. “Can you see everyone in a democracy volunteering to give up flying? Can you see the majority of the population becoming vegan? Can you see the majority agreeing to restrict the size of their families?”

Hillman doubts that human ingenuity can find a fix and says there is no evidence that greenhouse gases can be safely buried. But if we adapt to a future with less – focusing on Hillman’s love and music – it might be good for us. “And who is ‘we’?” asks Hillman with a typically impish smile. “Wealthy people will be better able to adapt but the world’s population will head to regions of the planet such as northern Europe which will be temporarily spared the extreme effects of climate change. How are these regions going to respond? We see it now. Migrants will be prevented from arriving. We will let them drown.”

A small band of artists and writers, such as Paul Kingsnorth’s Dark Mountain project, have embraced the idea that “civilisation” will soon end in environmental catastrophe but only a few scientists – usually working beyond the patronage of funding bodies, and nearing the end of their own lives – have suggested as much. Is Hillman’s view a consequence of old age, and ill health? “I was saying these sorts of things 30 years ago when I was hale and hearty,” he says.

Hillman accuses all kinds of leaders – from religious leaders to scientists to politicians – of failing to honestly discuss what we must do to move to zero-carbon emissions. “I don’t think they can because society isn’t organised to enable them to do so. Political parties’ focus is on jobs and GDP, depending on the burning of fossil fuels.”

Without hope, goes the truism, we will give up. And yet optimism about the future is wishful thinking, says Hillman. He believes that accepting that our civilisation is doomed could make humanity rather like an individual who recognises he is terminally ill. Such people rarely go on a disastrous binge; instead, they do all they can to prolong their lives.

Can civilisation prolong its life until the end of this century? “It depends on what we are prepared to do.” He fears it will be a long time before we take proportionate action to stop climatic calamity. “Standing in the way is capitalism. Can you imagine the global airline industry being dismantled when hundreds of new runways are being built right now all over the world? It’s almost as if we’re deliberately attempting to defy nature. We’re doing the reverse of what we should be doing, with everybody’s silent acquiescence, and nobody’s batting an eyelid.”
Amen

So, in closing, what a lifelong observer and researcher on the environment- Dr. Hillman is telling us is that liberalism, conservatism and even most forms of socialism-especially Marxism, are not going to be enough to do what has to be done for humans to survive. Even collapse of civilization includes its own perils besides mass casualties, such as hundreds of nuclear reactors around the world that have to be carefully managed and fed tons of fresh water daily to prevent meltdowns across the world.
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Old April 27th, 2018, 04:48 AM   #24
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Marx, for a Nineteenth-Century scientist, has been shown to be very important, but the difficulty is that people living in particularly unpleasant situations adopted (and adapted) his analysis in ways that would have surprised him. Lenin, living in a ghastly shithole of a place where civilised life was impossible, and where they'd already murdered his brother for wanting better, applied it where the proletariat was not the majority but a tiny minority amongst a lot of peasants, but did so with a very smart awareness of politically effective action. The result, adopted so that members of his Party should survive armed capitalist intervention, was State Capitalism, in which the state itself acted like a big (and not very efficient) capitalist firm on the world market. We are living under total capitalism now: socialism remains the only possibility for survival. but the brainwashers have had another hundred years to work for the destruction of humanity. Ah, well - something may survive.
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Old April 27th, 2018, 04:53 AM   #25
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NO, I'm saying that the communist revolution was subjected to attack right from the outset by combined forces that had only one thing in common: that a successful workers and peasants revolution anywhere would endanger their ways of doing business and running governments. So, as things developed, the dilution of communism and the trend towards dictatorship could be seen as inevitable. An egalitarian, non-hierarchical government doesn't function when it's under attack.
This is true, and it's the same reason that NAZI Germany was attacked by Britain and France to start WW2.

The capitalist system requires that all alternatives be destroyed, lest people see just how wretched and debased civilization has become and overthrow the current globalist regime.
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Old April 27th, 2018, 05:12 AM   #26
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Yeah, thanks for proving what i said
How in the fuck can you read that post and come to the conclusion that he was agreeing with you, or "proving what you said."
C'mon, you could at least pretend to be rational and have the reading comprehension skills of a 12 year old!
WTF?
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Old April 27th, 2018, 05:16 AM   #27
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This is true, and it's the same reason that NAZI Germany was attacked by Britain and France to start WW2.

The capitalist system requires that all alternatives be destroyed, lest people see just how wretched and debased civilization has become and overthrow the current globalist regime.
Nazi Germany deserved to be utterly and completely destroyed. Germany started WWII in Europe by invading poland. They were murdering fucks and the world is a better place w/o them.
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Old April 28th, 2018, 03:25 AM   #28
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Nazi Germany deserved to be utterly and completely destroyed. Germany started WWII in Europe by invading poland. They were murdering fucks and the world is a better place w/o them.
Poland was invaded because the Polish were squatting on German land and were committing human rights abuses against the Germans who still lived on it.

It's a well known historical fact.

WW2 was a direct result of how the allies powers treated Germany after WW1.
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Old April 28th, 2018, 06:15 AM   #29
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Poland was invaded because the Polish were squatting on German land and were committing human rights abuses against the Germans who still lived on it.

It's a well known historical fact.

WW2 was a direct result of how the allies powers treated Germany after WW1.
Gee, I guess Germany should not have lost WWI then.
You know jack-shit about history kid.
Pretty much all wars, to some extent, are started by a war that happened previously. Read a fucking history book once in awhile.
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