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Old July 7th, 2017, 08:41 PM   #1
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Russia and USA must find a way to end conflicts

Hi maybe I am naive. I met a girl in Russia through internet, ok you can laugh and sigh, but through this I have gone to Moscow to meet her and her family and friends.
Dudes, they are not weird, they are not drunk, they are not evil, they are not stupid, they are not KGB agents. They are God fearing Christians as much as folks in USA. Bright and friendly... Nice folks! The political system is not as open as in America, and it is not the common folks fault. We are ALL subjects of our own cultures... Such a giant waist of energy and money put into hating eachother.. I wish someone would fix this... Maybe Trump?
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Old July 7th, 2017, 10:40 PM   #2
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It's me again

The world is getting more and more crazy every day with terrorism etc.. With all it's faults, Russia is populated by civilized people who share a great deal with us. They are highly educated and cultivated. They have great minds and scientists. Imagine if our world was in danger... which country would USA look to join forces with? yes.. Russia. The world is more and more uncertain and it would be stupid to sabotage any chances to reconciliate these two super powers.
America needs vilans and after WW2 Russia became the vilans to fuel the armement industry and Hollywood action movies. Each time a movie scene is set in Russia, it is always grey, always cold, always depressing... I went there and this is absolutely not the case. There are flowers everywhere, Wifi everywhere, the woman are beatiful and the men handsome. All of us are being brainwashed.
Now we need to move beyond this and think that Russia is close to 200 million productive and very educated citizens that if by faith they would have been born in America, they would have fit in perfectly. Sometimes I imagine myself being Trump talking to Putin and saying: Listen, we both have families, we both love our countries, we both are powerful and rich and we both have gained everything that can be gained. Maybe we both did some shady things in the pas, I know I did. What is the next step? More of the same? Our countries waist so much potential on mistrust and defiance... We both loose. Vladimir, USA doesnt need Russia. The world needs Russia. The world needs us to show the way. I want to help Russia become a country respected and reveared by other democracies. I want tourists to go to Russia and admire your country. I want to do it in a way that will not portray you as weak, i dont want people to thing that I won, that USA won. I want the world to see that you won, that we won that everybody won. Do you think this is possible? Where would you want to start?

Anyways... Just dreaming I guess
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Old July 8th, 2017, 05:54 AM   #3
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Dude, no one is saying anything negative about the Russian people. Although I have not been to Russia, I have a very close friend who immigrated here from Russia and she's the BEST. Absolutely wonderful lady.

What we are concerned about are those who govern Russia. Some refer to this as the "collective Putin"....an array of clans and groups who compete with one another for power and resources---all of whom support Putin's aggression. The more power Putin has--the more power/money THEY have.
There is a danger involved in Trump and Putin's relationship. Many of us believe that Putin is far superior to Trump in several ways: experience, intelligence, hostility. We also sense that Putin has a long game and his interference in our election is proof of that.

I strongly feel that Putin WANTED Trump to win so he can manipulate world power. There is a pervasive danger in the Trump/Putin relationship. Trump admires the man, this KGB thug who murders his detractors.
So far, Putin is winning this dangerous chess game. He has created chaos in our election system. He has manipulated Trump. He has basically "chosen" Trump to lead this nation and THAT in itself is cause for great concern. WHY? WHY did he want Trump to win the presidency?
Putin is a shrewd man and a rational man. He’s totally ruthless and brutal. Trump, on the other hand, is a neophyte.
It is not the Russian people we fear. It is Putin and those in his "collective".
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Old July 8th, 2017, 08:34 AM   #4
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Thanks for replying.

From listening to your text, I think that the " we need a vilain" theory still applies to USA. For the sake of arguing, when you say that in Russia, it is a small clan, close to power that decide everything, I would argue that in the western world (USA) it is more of the same. How about the "GoldenSax" of the world who have their hands in everything... How about the media's who are owned by the same bunch... How about the food industry, armement , the lobbies etc... Putin was the head of KGB, the Bushes came out of CIA... USA doesn't have clean hands either. Russia is a younger democracy. It is in a different stage of its democratic development, comming from a different place. USA came from monarchy, Russian is comming from Communism.
Regarding the US election, I followed it closely from Canada. My humble analysis as to why Clinton lost has close to nothing to do with Russian interference. Imagine, Trump won EVEN though there was "pussy gate" even though he came out of the Republican party that didn't even support him... I think you could critique Trump's ethics or morality, but to think of him as a puppet is a mistake. He totally flattened out anybody that came on his way during the elections. He was more charismatic then Clinton who was a bit robotic who came out as robotic.. Trump is no angel, but to think that he is a week boy is wrong. To think that Putin is some evil mastermind that will play Trump like a violin false again in the "vilain" theory. I prefer to give the process a chance and see what they can achieve. Things can not get a lot worse then they already are and being open to talks is very positive
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Old July 8th, 2017, 01:27 PM   #5
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USA with B.Obama as leadership get war on terrorism in Africa and Middle Easts and he failure his wars in seven nations president Trump this year preppering for ban muslims from thus seven Islam nations in 90 Days he just fix ban muslim to USA as he promises him first 90 of 100 Days some president. How many immigration he let to the United States last 150 days ??
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Old July 8th, 2017, 01:52 PM   #6
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With vice president Pence some president it will be new war in foreign Wood my maybe knowing with Pence.
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Old July 8th, 2017, 02:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontrealDude View Post
Thanks for replying.

From listening to your text, I think that the " we need a vilain" theory still applies to USA. For the sake of arguing, when you say that in Russia, it is a small clan, close to power that decide everything, I would argue that in the western world (USA) it is more of the same. How about the "GoldenSax" of the world who have their hands in everything... How about the media's who are owned by the same bunch... How about the food industry, armement , the lobbies etc... Putin was the head of KGB, the Bushes came out of CIA... USA doesn't have clean hands either. Russia is a younger democracy. It is in a different stage of its democratic development, comming from a different place. USA came from monarchy, Russian is comming from Communism.
Regarding the US election, I followed it closely from Canada. My humble analysis as to why Clinton lost has close to nothing to do with Russian interference. Imagine, Trump won EVEN though there was "pussy gate" even though he came out of the Republican party that didn't even support him... I think you could critique Trump's ethics or morality, but to think of him as a puppet is a mistake. He totally flattened out anybody that came on his way during the elections. He was more charismatic then Clinton who was a bit robotic who came out as robotic.. Trump is no angel, but to think that he is a week boy is wrong. To think that Putin is some evil mastermind that will play Trump like a violin false again in the "vilain" theory. I prefer to give the process a chance and see what they can achieve. Things can not get a lot worse then they already are and being open to talks is very positive


We must agree to disagree. Russia can call itself a "democracy" until hell freezes over and it won't make it so. "The Russian political system is one of the more recent to embrace democracy but remains deeply flawed in terms of its democratic credentials, overwhemingly tainted by corruption, and massively influenced by the power and personality of one man, Vladimir Putin."
Roger Darlinton AND I completely agree.

A democracy involves transparency, checks and balances--not just the ability to vote. It's nonsense to think the U.S. "NEEDS" a villian. There's always one waiting in the wings, which is why we've been at war for decades. Pick any year since 1776 and there is about a 90% chance that America was involved in some war during that calendar year.

I didn't say that Clinton lost because of Russian involvement. I said that Putin created chaos and interfered in our election. I said that it is obvious that Putin's choice was Trump and I asked you WHY? Could it be that Trump is so inexperienced and so easily manipulated by flattery and adulation? OR could it be that Putin has something MORE on Trump?

AND you don't think things can get much worse?? Really? Call me crazy, but I think nuclear proliferation is a LOT worse.
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Old July 8th, 2017, 02:27 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
We must agree to disagree. Russia can call itself a "democracy" until hell freezes over and it won't make it so. "The Russian political system is one of the more recent to embrace democracy but remains deeply flawed in terms of its democratic credentials, overwhemingly tainted by corruption, and massively influenced by the power and personality of one man, Vladimir Putin."
Roger Darlinton AND I completely agree.

A democracy involves transparency, checks and balances--not just the ability to vote. It's nonsense to think the U.S. "NEEDS" a villian. There's always one waiting in the wings, which is why we've been at war for decades. Pick any year since 1776 and there is about a 90% chance that America was involved in some war during that calendar year.

I didn't say that Clinton lost because of Russian involvement. I said that Putin created chaos and interfered in our election. I said that it is obvious that Putin's choice was Trump and I asked you WHY? Could it be that Trump is so inexperienced and so easily manipulated by flattery and adulation? OR could it be that Putin has something MORE on Trump?

AND you don't think things can get much worse?? Really? Call me crazy, but I think nuclear proliferation is a LOT worse.
Russia isn't democracy. Russia is Federation with big police forces.
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Old July 8th, 2017, 04:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by MontrealDude View Post
Hi maybe I am naive. I met a girl in Russia through internet, ok you can laugh and sigh, but through this I have gone to Moscow to meet her and her family and friends.
Dudes, they are not weird, they are not drunk, they are not evil, they are not stupid, they are not KGB agents. They are God fearing Christians as much as folks in USA. Bright and friendly... Nice folks! The political system is not as open as in America, and it is not the common folks fault. We are ALL subjects of our own cultures... Such a giant waist of energy and money put into hating eachother.. I wish someone would fix this... Maybe Trump?
Russia considers us the enemy.

They have undermined US interests around the world, including the recent hacking of our electoral process.

They currently illegally occupy the Crimea, and are undermining elections in Ukraine, as well as Western European allied countries.

Trump isn't going to fix anything, and is blatantly using the office to personally enrich himself and his family.

Vladimir Putin is a murderer, and an international criminal, that must be dealt with as a murderer, and an international criminal.

Fortunately, we have enough hawks in our government, that will not allow the criminal Trump, to lift economic sanctions on Russia, continuing to cost the Russian economy $147 Billion per year.

This isn't going to change until Putin, and Trump both face justice, and Russia ends it's illegal occupation of the Crimea, and ceases undermining US interests around the world, and ceases it's cyber campaign of attempting to undermine democratic elections both here, and abroad.
Thanks from Clara007
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Old July 8th, 2017, 06:48 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by MontrealDude View Post
Thanks for replying.

From listening to your text, I think that the " we need a vilain" theory still applies to USA. For the sake of arguing, when you say that in Russia, it is a small clan, close to power that decide everything, I would argue that in the western world (USA) it is more of the same. How about the "GoldenSax" of the world who have their hands in everything... How about the media's who are owned by the same bunch... How about the food industry, armement , the lobbies etc... Putin was the head of KGB, the Bushes came out of CIA... USA doesn't have clean hands either. Russia is a younger democracy. It is in a different stage of its democratic development, comming from a different place. USA came from monarchy, Russian is comming from Communism.
Regarding the US election, I followed it closely from Canada. My humble analysis as to why Clinton lost has close to nothing to do with Russian interference. Imagine, Trump won EVEN though there was "pussy gate" even though he came out of the Republican party that didn't even support him... I think you could critique Trump's ethics or morality, but to think of him as a puppet is a mistake. He totally flattened out anybody that came on his way during the elections. He was more charismatic then Clinton who was a bit robotic who came out as robotic.. Trump is no angel, but to think that he is a week boy is wrong. To think that Putin is some evil mastermind that will play Trump like a violin false again in the "vilain" theory. I prefer to give the process a chance and see what they can achieve. Things can not get a lot worse then they already are and being open to talks is very positive
Not bad. I give it 3.5 stars out of 5.
Hail Kek
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