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Old October 24th, 2017, 04:27 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Camelot View Post
Dear Bubba Jones and Hot Dragon; You are both excellent contributors to DTT IMO. It seems that a simple difference of interpretation has taken place. Please take a deep breath and a moment so that the situation can de-escalate. Life is too short for good folks to over boil. Thanks.
especially this thread. my point was never to debate rape, it was that islamic terrorism always makes the news, but the other crimes of islam, the domestic violence endemic wherever islam is dominant, the oppression, the lack of freedom in every sense, thats always brushed under the carpet. and shamefully, its done by the political left wing. those who have always been champions of freedom, of opposing violence, of defending the disadvantaged from oppression, they are taking sides with the oppressor.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 06:21 PM   #42
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Until the mid to late 1970s there was NO MARITAL RAPE in this country either !!!! If you were married, you could NOT rape your wife. Under the law access to her body was YOUR RIGHT !!! It was also taken for granted by police that beating your wife was acceptable. NO man went to jail for "disciplining" his wife !! Hell in Louisiana, until 1980 a woman was obligated BY LAW to hand over her paycheck to her husband if he so requested.

We are simply NOT that far removed from those old misogynistic ways and LAWS. We've come a long way in 30 years, but there are still far too many men that STILL believe that way.

Yes Islam is horrible, but don't fool yourself into thinking we're all that much better !!!
We are way better.

Did we have women publicly stoned to the death by the general population for reporting rape thirty years ago? Fifty? Hundred?

When and where in our western laws in America did it take a public confession by a rapist or four male eyewitnesses to prove a rape? The idea that FOUR MALE witnesses would allow the rape to take place without trying to intervene is Islam.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 08:13 PM   #43
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you dont think women are to blame for being raped

neither does gordy

neither does camelot

neither do i

neither do the courts

neither do judges

neither do the overwhelming majority of lawmakers at all levels of government.

we ARE western men, and we do NOT think its her fault

therefore:

its FALSE that western culture blames women for being raped.

there are some sexist assholes who individually feel 'their woman' is 'their property' and 'sluts are asking for it' but those individuals do not define western culture.
Tell ya what, why don't you come visit the southeast US. Spend some time in Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee ??? They aren't so "open" about these days but there are TONS of men who still apply the old double standard. It IS fundamental in western society. We are getting better. I've seen some major improvements just in my life time. But don't fool yourself, this is seriously embedded in our culture. Just because YOU have evolved and maybe most of your friends have as well doesn't mean there aren't still millions of men who think backwards.

Just for argument's sake, let's say a large black gay man sexually assaulted you. Gave you a right royal rump rape.

How would YOU feel if the police asked you ANY of the questions from my original post ?? How would you feel if your friends asked any of those questions ?? How would you feel wen his defense attorney started asking you those same questions ?? How are you going to feel when they want to know how many sexual partners you've had ?? How are you gonna feel when they ask you if you've ever engaged in any sort of homosexual activities ?? Do ANY of those questions alter the FACT that you've been forcibly and completely against your will sexually assaulted ??

I'm not saying every man is a potential rapist. I'm not saying every man thinks this way, but MY experience, growing up in the deep south, is that the majority DO think this way and they DO want to transfer at least some of the blame to the victim.

These ARE the questions rape victims get asked, by police, friends, family and coworkers.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 12:00 AM   #44
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Tell ya what, why don't you come visit the southeast US. Spend some time in Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee ??? They aren't so "open" about these days but there are TONS of men who still apply the old double standard. It IS fundamental in western society. We are getting better. I've seen some major improvements just in my life time. But don't fool yourself, this is seriously embedded in our culture. Just because YOU have evolved and maybe most of your friends have as well doesn't mean there aren't still millions of men who think backwards.

Just for argument's sake, let's say a large black gay man sexually assaulted you. Gave you a right royal rump rape.

How would YOU feel if the police asked you ANY of the questions from my original post ?? How would you feel if your friends asked any of those questions ?? How would you feel wen his defense attorney started asking you those same questions ?? How are you going to feel when they want to know how many sexual partners you've had ?? How are you gonna feel when they ask you if you've ever engaged in any sort of homosexual activities ?? Do ANY of those questions alter the FACT that you've been forcibly and completely against your will sexually assaulted ??

I'm not saying every man is a potential rapist. I'm not saying every man thinks this way, but MY experience, growing up in the deep south, is that the majority DO think this way and they DO want to transfer at least some of the blame to the victim.

These ARE the questions rape victims get asked, by police, friends, family and coworkers.
i agree with all that. i know there are individuals who hold this kind of misogynistic attitude. in places there are lots of individuals. it was much worse in the past, its getting better, but its still a problem, i agree.

now, can you agree that the law doesnt hold this kind of attitude. the law doesnt blame her for anything, the law holds him responsible. the state doesnt make it her fault. lawmakers at every level of government say its not her fault, with maybe the rare exception, who is roundly shouted down if he ever does blame the victim.

your point, the sexist asshole who thinks sluts in short skirts are asking for it, that exists, yes i agree, there are such people. some of them might even be cops who investigate rape, and that makes life awful for the victims. but there is another counter attitude that also exists, and the counter attitude has the backing of the state and institutions.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 07:10 AM   #45
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i agree with all that. i know there are individuals who hold this kind of misogynistic attitude. in places there are lots of individuals. it was much worse in the past, its getting better, but its still a problem, i agree.

now, can you agree that the law doesnt hold this kind of attitude. the law doesnt blame her for anything, the law holds him responsible. the state doesnt make it her fault. lawmakers at every level of government say its not her fault, with maybe the rare exception, who is roundly shouted down if he ever does blame the victim.

your point, the sexist asshole who thinks sluts in short skirts are asking for it, that exists, yes i agree, there are such people. some of them might even be cops who investigate rape, and that makes life awful for the victims. but there is another counter attitude that also exists, and the counter attitude has the backing of the state and institutions.
I would agree that "the law" is making strides. Great strides. It's just sad that most of them have been in my lifetime. However the law is still staffed by people. And many of them still bring their biases into the office with them. They speak the words because it's the PC thing to do, but they don't believe it. The bias is still there, just infinitely more subtle. It's worse in rural areas. That good ole boy network is still alive and well out there. Again my personal experiences which are anecdotal are that it's worse in rural areas among older and more religious, where as it seems less pervasive among younger, less religious urbanites. I guess it'll take a few more generations.

We still have politicians using words like "legitimate rape". Go figure !! Look at the debate over birth control. Looked at logically, it would seem providing low cost or no cost BC would pay vast benefits down the road. In fact there was just a report released which stated that for the first time in years the abortion rate has DECLINED. The poor, those living at or below the poverty level, are almost half of all abortion seekers. For the first time in more than 20 years the number of abortions among the poverty group has declined. While not the only factor, a major contributing factor was the ACA requirement that birth control be covered by insurance. A rule the Trump is trying to get rid of at this very moment. Seems completely illogical to me, but there it is.

I guess my point here is that, at least in my part of the world, it's still far more prevalent than most people want to admit. It may be vastly different where you live.
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Last edited by BubbaJones; October 25th, 2017 at 07:55 AM.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 09:30 AM   #46
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i agree with all that. i know there are individuals who hold this kind of misogynistic attitude. in places there are lots of individuals. it was much worse in the past, its getting better, but its still a problem, i agree.

now, can you agree that the law doesnt hold this kind of attitude. the law doesnt blame her for anything, the law holds him responsible. the state doesnt make it her fault. lawmakers at every level of government say its not her fault, with maybe the rare exception, who is roundly shouted down if he ever does blame the victim.

your point, the sexist asshole who thinks sluts in short skirts are asking for it, that exists, yes i agree, there are such people. some of them might even be cops who investigate rape, and that makes life awful for the victims. but there is another counter attitude that also exists, and the counter attitude has the backing of the state and institutions.
That may be the case in areas with which you are familiar. As was said, things are different in other areas.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 10:24 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by BubbaJones View Post
Tell ya what, why don't you come visit the southeast US. Spend some time in Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee ??? They aren't so "open" about these days but there are TONS of men who still apply the old double standard. It IS fundamental in western society. We are getting better. I've seen some major improvements just in my life time. But don't fool yourself, this is seriously embedded in our culture. Just because YOU have evolved and maybe most of your friends have as well doesn't mean there aren't still millions of men who think backwards.

Just for argument's sake, let's say a large black gay man sexually assaulted you. Gave you a right royal rump rape.

How would YOU feel if the police asked you ANY of the questions from my original post ?? How would you feel if your friends asked any of those questions ?? How would you feel wen his defense attorney started asking you those same questions ?? How are you going to feel when they want to know how many sexual partners you've had ?? How are you gonna feel when they ask you if you've ever engaged in any sort of homosexual activities ?? Do ANY of those questions alter the FACT that you've been forcibly and completely against your will sexually assaulted ??

I'm not saying every man is a potential rapist. I'm not saying every man thinks this way, but MY experience, growing up in the deep south, is that the majority DO think this way and they DO want to transfer at least some of the blame to the victim.

These ARE the questions rape victims get asked, by police, friends, family and coworkers.
That's one reason I moved from the South to Colorado. That shit does go on, and a lot of other stupid shit.
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Old October 26th, 2017, 05:53 PM   #48
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I guess my point here is that, at least in my part of the world, it's still far more prevalent than most people want to admit. It may be vastly different where you live.
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That may be the case in areas with which you are familiar. As was said, things are different in other areas.
i am sure it varies from place to place, such attitudes exist, less than it used to be thankfully. but there is NO place in the west where a woman will be charged with a crime because she was raped. there is nowhere in the west where a woman will not tell her family she was raped because she is afraid they will kill her for dishonouring them. in the islamic world thats everywhere.

the west and islam are not the same, and the problems islam brings are always glossed over and excused away.
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Old October 26th, 2017, 07:07 PM   #49
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That may be the case in areas with which you are familiar. As was said, things are different in other areas.
Like Canada?
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Old October 27th, 2017, 06:17 AM   #50
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back to the thread.....Now why is the IRS is admitting they did target Tea Party accounts?? NO they dy'nt...Now they admit it...what gives??
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