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Old November 19th, 2017, 11:27 PM   #41
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Atheist invasion, I do respect each ones belief but Christianity is still alive.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 04:07 AM   #42
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Atheist invasion, I do respect each ones belief but Christianity is still alive.
Please read the original post before commenting.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 03:40 PM   #43
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I have had my eyes on the Gospel taught by Yeshua for 45+ years, and the prophecies of the OT and NT, as well as the falling away of professed Christians who've forgotten the Gospel, practicing another Gospel and worshiping another Christ ... which was prophesied.
Can you elaborate on that? I'd like to hear more.
A complete reply would be quite long Asimov. I'll try to give ya a Readers Digest version. I'm not claiming for a moment that my spirituality is 100 percent Bible based, to be clear. It isn't.

Nonetheless, the Gospel of the NT is the core of my spiritual belief'''.

In close to five decades of study of many religions, the Gospel as taught by Jesus, Yeshua of Nazareth, resonated deeply within me. The Buddha's teachings also ring true, but the Gospel preserves personality after physical death. I just like that idea better than the final destination, Nirvana, meaning the dissolution of personality.

As for the prophecies regarding the end times, a common rebuttal to their authenticity and applicability is that stuff like that has been happening for .... ever. True, but not on a global scale. The feeling of being in a crescendo is not limited to the religious or spiritual. Most are feeling it, and humankind's fear quotient daily increases to anyone paying attention.

It should be clear to those paying attention that the problems we've created are beyond humankind's ability to solve, not because we lack the ability or technology but because we are locked into conflict and because making the changes required is both expensive and time consuming. The resource wars have just begun, imo, and they will add nothing positive to addressing our global conundrum.

So, "Jesus returning," whatever exactly that means, is needed. I don't see t he return of an avenger, but I do see a lot of surprised, self-professed Christians, who never quite understood the implication of the wide and narrow gates, i.e. Christendom, the mixture of government, business, and religion, can't fit through the narrow gate.

However, for those Christians and everyone else, eternal hell isn't their final destination. The Gospel reverberates with universal salvation, which wasn't very useful for the government, business, religious monolith conceived and birthed by Constantine and the Roman Church. So, they invented another Gospel and another Christ. Imo.

I don't want to go too long here Asimov. Have I explained myself adequately? Do you have any specific questions?
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Old November 20th, 2017, 06:34 PM   #44
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... the Gospel of the NT is the core of my spiritual belief'''.
We agree on that, but perhaps from different directions. The gospel of Christ is the only one that I know of that bestows grace to accept people as they are without laying down terms and conditions or a strict regimen of change. And because Christ has shown compassion for us, we can extend that compassion to others without expecting anything in return. In a way it is the antithesis of mainstream religious dogma (which is what got him crucified by the religious folk of his day).

Regarding end times prophecy, I take it with a grain of salt. No one, I believe, has it all figured out. I was raised trying to memorize all of the charts and dispensations, and now that I've had a few decades to look it over on my own, I kind of laugh and think, "yeah, we'll see." I've got enough concerns today to not get too bent out of shape about future events about which some "scholars" claim to have special insight. What is more important to me is how I treat my neighbor today.

I like what you said about resource wars, and how it's just beginning. The problem with this planet is that we are running out of space.

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So, "Jesus returning," whatever exactly that means, is needed. I don't see t he return of an avenger, but I do see a lot of surprised, self-professed Christians, who never quite understood the implication of the wide and narrow gates, i.e. Christendom, the mixture of government, business, and religion, can't fit through the narrow gate.
Agreed. A lot of end times prophecy, if one looks at history, seems already to have take place. (I'm sure I'll take a beating on the forum for that one).

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However, for those Christians and everyone else, eternal hell isn't their final destination. The Gospel reverberates with universal salvation, which wasn't very useful for the government, business, religious monolith conceived and birthed by Constantine and the Roman Church. So, they invented another Gospel and another Christ. Imo.
[/QUOTE]

I think Constantine meant well, but he was coming out of paganism and emperor worship, so he couldn't conceive of a personal gospel without some sort of hierarchy to keep everybody in conformity to a universal set of rules. Eastern Christians never submitted to the ascendancy of Rome, nor did millions of Protestants at the time of the Reformation.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 09:44 PM   #45
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We agree on that, but perhaps from different directions. The gospel of Christ is the only one that I know of that bestows grace to accept people as they are without laying down terms and conditions or a strict regimen of change. And because Christ has shown compassion for us, we can extend that compassion to others without expecting anything in return. In a way it is the antithesis of mainstream religious dogma (which is what got him crucified by the religious folk of his day).
Are you familiar with the Nestorian Church? Nestorius taught that Jesus had two natures, the Logos and a human nature, and that Mary wasn't the Mother of God, rather the Mother of Christ, paraphrased. Those views were declared heretical at the Council of Ephesus in 431. The Nestorians headed east, settling in Persia.

The Nestorian Church at its peak from the ninth to the fourteenth century was the largest Christian church. It plowed through Hindu lands because the salvation offered by Christ was simple compared to the endless purification rituals of Hinduism. The Christian promise of release from the cycle of death and rebirth was far simpler, and may I add, more correct, free of terms and conditions or a strict regimen of change.

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Regarding end times prophecy, I take it with a grain of salt. No one, I believe, has it all figured out. I was raised trying to memorize all of the charts and dispensations, and now that I've had a few decades to look it over on my own, I kind of laugh and think, "yeah, we'll see." I've got enough concerns today to not get too bent out of shape about future events about which some "scholars" claim to have special insight. What is more important to me is how I treat my neighbor today.
We're in complete agreement. Biblical prophesy initially caught my attention, around age 21. As you say however, no one has it figured out. How can the finite understand the infinite? A Christian disciple must accept and be comfortable with mystery. So many are uneasy with it, so they glom onto disciplines that purport to have the mystery solved, at least the high points.

Yes, the most important action for a Christian is to love their neighbor where they are. Nothing is a more powerful testimony than acts of love, especially to those who despise us.

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I like what you said about resource wars, and how it's just beginning. The problem with this planet is that we are running out of space.
Yes we are.

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Agreed. A lot of end times prophecy, if one looks at history, seems already to have take place. (I'm sure I'll take a beating on the forum for that one).
Not from me.

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I think Constantine meant well, but he was coming out of paganism and emperor worship, so he couldn't conceive of a personal gospel without some sort of hierarchy to keep everybody in conformity to a universal set of rules. Eastern Christians never submitted to the ascendancy of Rome, nor did millions of Protestants at the time of the Reformation.
Maybe he did, but those around him saw an opening to exert maximal temporal power, and they seized it creating their most abominable concept: eternal hell. Of the six major schools of Christian theology in the fourth century, only the Carthaginian or North African school incorporated eternal hell into its canon. The Roman Church took up the gauntlet, and systematically eliminated all competing theologies. The Nestorians escaped as did the Coptics.

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Thanks for sharing.
Thank you too. It's a pleasure to discuss this topic without rancor and accusations.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 10:02 PM   #46
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The ultimate goal is to be done with all religion and only have allegiance to the state.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 10:23 PM   #47
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Are you familiar with the Nestorian Church? Nestorius taught that Jesus had two natures, the Logos and a human nature, and that Mary wasn't the Mother of God, rather the Mother of Christ, paraphrased. Those views were declared heretical at the Council of Ephesus in 431. The Nestorians headed east, settling in Persia.
The Nestorians extended much further east. What shattered the Mongolian Empire besides for struggles of ascendancy was religion.

The sons of Genghis Khan married Nestorians. While the Mongol invasion of Russia and Eastern Europe were lighting strikes of conquest for tribute, the Mongol invasion of the Middle East and the Holy Land was a Crusade.

Hulagu and his faction the Ilkhanate had an alliance with the Vatican.

Hulagu Khan, grandson of Genghis methodically conquered and destroyed Islamic cities and strongholds. The "Three Pillars of Islam" of his day were Baghdad, Damascus, and Cairo.

Hulagu wiped Baghdad off the map, razed Damascus, and was on his way to Cairo when he withdrew upon the death of Great Khan Mongke.

The Mongol defeat at Ain Jalut was a rear guard of Nestorian Christians left behind by Hulagu that were betrayed not only by the Franks, but also the Mongol Golden Horde that had converted to Islam.

Ain Jalut was the first time a Mongol force was defeated and not avenged. Islam and Christianity had torn apart the greatest contiguous empire in history.
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Old November 21st, 2017, 01:59 AM   #48
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I remember reading a book that was Written about 85 years ago that predicted the Death of Judaism

It said much of the same..
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Old November 21st, 2017, 07:27 PM   #49
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Are you familiar with the Nestorian Church? Nestorius taught that Jesus had two natures, the Logos and a human nature, and that Mary wasn't the Mother of God, rather the Mother of Christ, paraphrased. Those views were declared heretical at the Council of Ephesus in 431. The Nestorians headed east, settling in Persia.
I'm a little apprised of the Nestorian Controversy, but he is an early church leader that gets passed over a lot, somewhat due to the pervasiveness of Arianism. From what I know of his teachings about the nature of Christ, I don't think I'm that far off. There is some biblical basis for what Nestorius was trying to say, but he had a lot of powerful enemies who tended to twist his words.

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Thank you too. It's a pleasure to discuss this topic without rancor and accusations.
Anytime.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 05:08 AM   #50
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The ultimate goal is to be done with all religion and only have allegiance to the state.
maybe that's your goal

it's not mine nor millions (billions) of others
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