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Old November 22nd, 2017, 05:59 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Marcus Livius View Post
The Nestorians extended much further east. What shattered the Mongolian Empire besides for struggles of ascendancy was religion.

The sons of Genghis Khan married Nestorians. Why the Mongol invasion of Russia and Eastern Europe were lighting strikes of conquest for tribute, the Mongol invasion of the Middle East and the Holy Land was a Crusade.

Hulagu and his faction the Ilkhanate had an alliance with the Vatican.

Hulagu Khan, grandson of Genghis methodically conquered and destroyed Islamic cities and strongholds. The "Three Pillars of Islam" of his day were Baghdad, Damascus, and Cairo.

Hulagu wiped Baghdad off the map, razed Damascus, and was on his way to Cairo when he withdrew upon the death of Great Khan Mongke.

The Mongol defeat at Ain Jalut was a rear guard of Nestorian Christians left behind by Hulagu that were betrayed not only by the Franks, but also the Mongol Golden Horde that had converted to Islam.

Ain Jalut was the first time a Mongol force was defeated and not avenged. Islam and Christianity had torn apart the greatest contiguous empire in history.
Thanks. That will be news to most Christians.

The Nestorians did not teach the eternal hell concept. Most Christian schools didn't. Only the North African/Carthaginian school did, and the Roman Church promoted this school's tenets at the end of a sword.

Are you familiar with the book of Enoch? I bet you are. That story demonstrates the power the Roman Church drew to itself, power exerted over centuries and centuries. Opposing that power was dangerous to your health so to speak....

To get on topic, , what are accepted as "mainstream" Christian beliefs were decided primarily by the Roman Church, and the vast majority of Christians have no idea this is true.

Few know that a huge controversy raged in the Christian community for centuries over reincarnation. Origen taught Christian reincarnation, and had a large following. Many disagreed with his teachings. For a while, folks agreed to disagree.

Additionally, Origen taught universal salvation. That and reincarnation were not what the Roman Church, which had allied itself with the Roman Empire, wanted to hear. Those doctrines are useless for controlling people. The "one shot at salvation with eternal hell the destination for those who fail" doctrine, on the other hand, was perfect for controlling people.

Under the "wonderful" emperor Justinian, some 300 years after Origen's death, his teaching were declared heresy and he was declared a heretic. This "ruling" was not a spiritual as much as it was a political decision.

And here we are today with very few Christians understanding that great minds in the early church accepted reincarnation.

Frankly, Origen's teaching are very close to my beliefs.

What's ending in Christianity is the dominance of the Roman Church's belief system as the only true version.

Last edited by imaginethat; November 22nd, 2017 at 06:05 AM.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 06:04 AM   #52
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IT if there is no hell explain this teaching of Christ

Quote:
Luke 16:19-31New International Version (NIV)
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19*“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20*At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21*and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22*“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23*In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24*So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25*“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26*And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27*“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28*for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29*“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30*“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31*“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Now, you cannot say there isn't a hell... now if you want to discuss what hell is.


It can be:

Eternal total Separation from God (which the loss is causes a burning in the soul due to the emptiness of the absence of God)

or

It is a literal burning place (as discribed in the poem "A Divine Comedy"
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 06:14 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
IT if there is no hell explain this teaching of Christ




Now, you cannot say there isn't a hell... now if you want to discuss what hell is.


It can be:

Eternal total Separation from God (which the loss is causes a burning in the soul due to the emptiness of the absence of God)

or

It is a literal burning place (as discribed in the poem "A Divine Comedy"
That's a parable.

Please explain to me how a loving God creates and maintains for eternity a place of conscious torment and suffering. Please explain to me how it's a victory for the vast majority of created beings to be sent to eternal hell.

I'm pretty sure you've never studied Christian history to understand how this blasphemous concept became the "only true" interpretation.

Christ and others preached universal salvation. The Roman Church, with its mistranslations of "aion" and "hell" - a concept completely absent in the OT - successfully hid this truth, but once you see it, universal salvation runs through the OT and NT.

Please, take a look here: 100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 06:23 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
That's a parable.

Please explain to me how a loving God creates and maintains for eternity a place of conscious torment and suffering. Please explain to me how it's a victory for the vast majority of created beings to be sent to eternal hell.

I'm pretty sure you've never studied Christian history to understand how this blasphemous concept became the "only true" interpretation.

Chr

\ist and others preached universal salvation. The Roman Church, with its mistranslations of "aion" and "hell" - a concept completely absent in the OT - successfully hid his truth, but once you see it, universal salvation runs through the OT and NT.

Please, take a look here: 100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
is it, He used a person's name.. if you look at parables it he does not use names he will say a Certain Farmer, not Farmer Jones

or he says "A King" not King Saul


in this parable he mentions the faithful man by name.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 07:05 AM   #55
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is it, He used a person's name.. if you look at parables it he does not use names he will say a Certain Farmer, not Farmer Jones

or he says "A King" not King Saul


in this parable he mentions the faithful man by name.
It's ridiculous to believe that Heaven has an observation deck so the "saved" can go and watch the damned suffer in torment.

Think man!!

Read that link, please. 1 Timothy 2:1-4
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Jesus died for all.

"He gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." -- 1 Tim. 2:6

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he, by the grace of God, should taste death for every man." -- Heb. 2:9

"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2

Once you see through the Roman Church's obfuscation, the good news of the Gospel becomes clear.

Christ's victory is complete. God wills all His created beings to be saved. Once you see it TN, universal salvation runs throughout the Bible. They tried to hide it, but God prevailed. It's still there. Hallelujah, that the lie is being revealed.
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 01:14 PM   #56
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maybe that's your goal

it's not mine nor millions (billions) of others
Sometimes an elite political class must push the proletariat toward something they feel is undesirable. Sometimes, examples must be made of those who do not conform
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Old November 22nd, 2017, 04:29 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
It's ridiculous to believe that Heaven has an observation deck so the "saved" can go and watch the damned suffer in torment.

Christ's victory is complete. God wills all His created beings to be saved. Once you see it TN, universal salvation runs throughout the Bible. They tried to hide it, but God prevailed. It's still there. Hallelujah, that the lie is being revealed.
I believe this is the type of Scripture where TNV is coming from.

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [e]take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Jesus speaking to the Pharisees in Matt 25.

The Divine Comedy btw is fiction.
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