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Old July 5th, 2018, 09:39 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Citizen Kane View Post
LOL They spent ~$100,000 on ads that many people never saw, and many were seen after the election. They saw the polls, saw Hillary in front, went after the one they were assured by the MSM and leftwing blogs would win. As soon as the election was over they started with anti Trump stuff.
Well, let's see. Doesn't Snowden still call Russia his home? Isn't Assange still hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy?

Do you think Putin would leave an easily uncovered trail?

Putin counts on the American habit of only looking one step ahead. Putin and Xi play generational politics facilitated by employing generational political maneuvering.

I'm tired of saying it, but my Russian born wife has a little IPTV box, Kartina TV, and I watched it all unfold, with an interpreter whom I trust .

Russians were assured that a Trump victory meant sanctions lifted and Russia's annexation accepted. It meant far less US connection with and support for NATO.

While the last two have become reality, the first goal hasn't. So, doesn't that show the whole Russian interference/collusion theory is bogus.

See: generational political maneuvering.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 10:25 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
This has been pointed out a hundred times on here. It was a big deal IMO and when i saw a few posters on here actually change their positions in favor on the warmonger. But in reality i think was a major downfall in the campaign of rhe clinton crime family. Everyone witnessed it and anyone w/ half a brain that wishes to avoid nuclear winter became instantly against her (them)
The big flaw in most political analysis I read and listen to over the past 20 years is that the power elite(billionaires, state security chiefs, arms merchants, and a smattering of A-list celebrities who don't have a clue/but just want to be seen with the rich and powerful) all work behind the scenes and get together for annual conferences at Davos to coordinate their strategies with national governments (including using threats to enforce the rules) do not give a rat's ass about social issues going on in any nation..including the ones they're from!

For reasons that are not completely clear, the Davos crowd decided that Russia was not playing its assigned role after Putin took over from his drunken, incompetent boss- Boris Yeltsin, and they appear to have been working on strategies to shift America's existential fear of foreign threats from Muslim terrorists to the more conventional threat- enemy nations! Now they have China and Iran to excuse spending more billions on missiles, aircraft, guns, new ships etc..

When it comes to the Clinton failure of 2016, according to the book: Shattered, Hillary Clinton and her round table decided within the first 24 hours to focus blame on Russia and FBI director- Comey, to throw the scent off their dismal, laughable campaign that should have easily won enough states to get her in the White House.

When it comes to policy, the Dems and their corporate sponsors are mostly amoral centrists! And, when it comes to social issues, their real bosses just want whatever policy maintains stability in the nations that count: the G-7 and a few important satellite nations like Israel and Saudi Arabia for example. All the rest can be subject for regime change, unending civil wars and disaster capitalism at the grand scale. How their populations cope with unlivable conditions produced, is their problem! If they try to immigrate to Europe or America and get in- GREAT! If they can't get in and are killed trying to enter, or imprisoned, with their children kept in separate detention compounds run by private prison corporations- GREAT! The Cabal wins either way!

When it comes to social issues like gay marriage, some may have noticed that the Democratic Party (including Clinton and Obama) were all against it...until they sniffed out a change in poll numbers nationally)/then they flipped and were all of a sudden gay friendly and all for same sex marriage!

The same thing goes on with the corporate sponsors who own them! As I learned from a gay blogger who follows these issues closely, by the mid-2000's, gay pride marches went from being small, do-it-yourself get togethers, where gays, lesbians and trans people would appear in public and face all the potential risks for doing so. But once 05 rolled around, all of a sudden, major corporate sponsors started sponsoring floats at the parades and sporting rainbow flags in their ads. So, once again, they don't really care, and that's why centrist liberal politicians who are mostly concerned with getting in and staying in office, don't care either!

On issues Dems are supposed to care about, repealing the Military's Don't Ask/Don't Tell policies, that has to wait until the polling numbers pass the required threshold for "doing the right thing!" Same goes for the immigration and refugee disaster on the US Southern Border. Dems wail about separating children from their parents, but if we take an honest look at the history, this means Trump has only raised the bar one notch higher than it was before. The only immigration issue Obama campaigned for was DACA, and he wasn't even interested in getting that through on time! DACA at best would only help a small minority of immigrants, but they were the issue that had the most friendly poll ratings. The Dems support the imperial interference policies in Latin America that create most of the refugees and immigrants to start with, so they have a hard time finding any high ground even to condemn Trump!

But, what's really scary, is that the Democratic Party establishment shifted with their controllers from appearing reluctant warriors to being the gung-ho warriors..which used to be the Republican's job! The arms-makers and the merchants of death want more saber-rattling, and this time around, unlike the first Cold War, they are willing to do it with a nation that also owns thousands of nuclear warheads. Likewise, they're political hacks seem to share their lack of concern for risk and so, no-fly zones in Syria and setting up missile bases all along Russia's borders are risks they are willing to support and promote today!
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Old July 6th, 2018, 11:17 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Well, let's see. Doesn't Snowden still call Russia his home? Isn't Assange still hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy?
And, why should either one of them be at risk/or why are centrists comfortable with the status quo so willing to blithely ignore what they have told us about secret government:
Without Snowden and Assange, we wouldn't know that: the NSA contractors can spy on any US resident with a simple term search; Secret court orders allow NSA to sweep up Americans' phone records; the Democratic Party had already fixed the nomination for Hillary Clinton before the campaign even started; that the US government has secret prisons in foreign friendly countries; the US Government practices torture and at least 100 prisoners picked up without any due process has died in US custody with no disclosures on cause of death........seems the rest of the world has learned, or in many cases-have had confirmed, many things they feared about creeping totalitarianism in the USA!
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Do you think Putin would leave an easily uncovered trail?

Putin counts on the American habit of only looking one step ahead. Putin and Xi play generational politics facilitated by employing generational political maneuvering.

I'm tired of saying it, but my Russian born wife has a little IPTV box, Kartina TV, and I watched it all unfold, with an interpreter whom I trust .

Russians were assured that a Trump victory meant sanctions lifted and Russia's annexation accepted. It meant far less US connection with and support for NATO.

While the last two have become reality, the first goal hasn't. So, doesn't that show the whole Russian interference/collusion theory is bogus.

See: generational political maneuvering.
I've said before, what fucking difference does it make who Putin wanted or didn't want as US president? There is no goddammed way that should have made a slight difference since:
1. The US has directly interfered with elections and overthrown governments in 87 nations..by last count. One of them being Russia! If you recall that Time Magazine story and cover I posted months ago, that featured American 'experts' bragging about how they got the thoroughly despised Yeltsin re-elected back in 96. Time changed their appreciation of the story and don't include it in their archives today. But, it will always be available from other sources. Sort of makes this whole story pale by comparison!

2. As Citizen Kane and other point out about this $100,000 Facebook ads story, it would have negligible effect compared to the avalanche of ads, let alone free publicity that Trump received daily from CNN and MSDNC. They did more to get Trump elected than any Russian source! If the Dems couldn't make the unelectable electable, that's their fault!

3. this new cold war against Russia threatens one clearly beneficial policy the Russian government and one or two Russian corporations are doing: picking up the slack and sponsoring marginalized alternative media in the US. Most of the show hosts on RT and Sputnik Radio are far from radical...they have been mostly former MSM hosts and reporters who found themselves frozen out by the BORG's new policies of not tolerating antiwar and anti-'free trade' speech.

4. why is nothing said about other nations who have interfered with US government and elections....Israel and Saudi Arabia for instance?
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Old July 6th, 2018, 02:10 PM   #34
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It's really this simple: Putin knew Trump and the GOP would weaken the USA and the West. That's why he supported Trump and the GOP. The GOP are the "useful idiots" the Russians have long laughed about.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 03:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
And, why should either one of them be at risk/or why are centrists comfortable with the status quo so willing to blithely ignore what they have told us about secret government:
Without Snowden and Assange, we wouldn't know that: the NSA contractors can spy on any US resident with a simple term search; Secret court orders allow NSA to sweep up Americans' phone records;
What bullshit! Unless you were an American who was living on another continent that starts with the letter "A" you should have KNOWN about our "secret government" which was the poorest kept secret ever. Snowden and Assange simply said it OUT LOUD while everyone else was SHUSHING the questioning masses. With the advent of advanced technology (which will become MORE adept) anyone who thinks our entire lives aren't public knowledge needs a lobotomy.

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the Democratic Party had already fixed the nomination for Hillary Clinton before the campaign even started; that the US government has secret prisons in foreign friendly countries; the US Government practices torture and at least 100 prisoners picked up without any due process has died in US custody with no disclosures on cause of death........seems the rest of the world has learned, or in many cases-have had confirmed, many things they feared about creeping totalitarianism in the USA!
The DNC "fixed" the nomination for Hillary Clinton because she represented the nomination of a lifetime---no matter how dirty she was. Bernie Sanders never had a chance. WHY? Because the system IN BOTH parties is as corrupt today as it was 50 years ago. Because Clinton was preordained. Because Clinton had paid her dues. Because Clinton brought in a bazillion dollars to the party. Because Clinton had VIPS in her corner. AND because Bernie was NEVER going to be an insider---he was an obstinate OUTSIDER and didn't have a dime.
YES! The U.S. government has secret prisons that are not a secret--where the hell have you been?? AND so does every other major power. Don't be naive.


Quote:
1. The US has directly interfered with elections and overthrown governments in 87 nations..by last count. One of them being Russia! If you recall that Time Magazine story and cover I posted months ago, that featured American 'experts' bragging about how they got the thoroughly despised Yeltsin re-elected back in 96. Time changed their appreciation of the story and don't include it in their archives today. But, it will always be available from other sources. Sort of makes this whole story pale by comparison!

So your argument here is "WE DO IT TOO!" "They did it first!" ??? Ridiculous.


Quote:
2. As Citizen Kane and other point out about this $100,000 Facebook ads story, it would have negligible effect compared to the avalanche of ads, let alone free publicity that Trump received daily from CNN and MSDNC. They did more to get Trump elected than any Russian source! If the Dems couldn't make the unelectable electable, that's their fault!
Publicity?? Is that what you call being the whipping boy 24/7?? More like an ass-whoopin'. The media tried their best to expose every lie, every sin, every bankruptcy, every nasty insult, and every possible scenario---because THAT'S their job---to inform the voters. IF it vomited out of Trump's mouth--THEY played it--the the people said "That's okay."

Quote:
3. this new cold war against Russia threatens one clearly beneficial policy the Russian government and one or two Russian corporations are doing: picking up the slack and sponsoring marginalized alternative media in the US. Most of the show hosts on RT and Sputnik Radio are far from radical...they have been mostly former MSM hosts and reporters who found themselves frozen out by the BORG's new policies of not tolerating antiwar and anti-'free trade' speech.
We are NOT in a Cold War with Russia and to imply that we are... completely misrepresents the meaning and results of the original Cold War. The real Cold War was defined by several intense nuclear crises, an arms race in which each side accumulated tens of thousands of powerful hydrogen bombs, and proxy wars in which millions died.

Quote:
4. why is nothing said about other nations who have interfered with US government and elections....Israel and Saudi Arabia for instance?
AND we've come full circle: THEY DID IT TOO.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 04:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Hook, line, and sinker.
No doubt.

Muh Russia
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Old July 6th, 2018, 04:26 PM   #37
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It's really this simple: Putin knew Trump and the GOP would weaken the USA and the West. That's why he supported Trump and the GOP. The GOP are the "useful idiots" the Russians have long laughed about.
Its very simple. Russia does shit for every election. this time however the FBI interfered with the republican candidate using fake information to get a judge to approve spying on US citizens.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 05:15 PM   #38
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Its very simple. Russia does shit for every election. this time however the FBI interfered with the republican candidate using fake information to get a judge to approve spying on US citizens.
And the moon landing was a hoax, right?
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Old July 6th, 2018, 05:25 PM   #39
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And the moon landing was a hoax, right?
No the Steele dossier was a hoax.
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Old July 6th, 2018, 05:36 PM   #40
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Yes, all these indictments with more to come are just a hoax. The right wing have turned red right down to their undies. The people that Reagan called the “Evil Empire” are just poor misunderstood victims in today’s wingnut mindset.
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