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Old July 6th, 2018, 08:19 PM   #51
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And, why should either one of them be at risk/or why are centrists comfortable with the status quo so willing to blithely ignore what they have told us about secret government:
Without Snowden and Assange, we wouldn't know that: the NSA contractors can spy on any US resident with a simple term search; Secret court orders allow NSA to sweep up Americans' phone records; the Democratic Party had already fixed the nomination for Hillary Clinton before the campaign even started; that the US government has secret prisons in foreign friendly countries; the US Government practices torture and at least 100 prisoners picked up without any due process has died in US custody with no disclosures on cause of death........seems the rest of the world has learned, or in many cases-have had confirmed, many things they feared about creeping totalitarianism in the USA!

I've said before, what fucking difference does it make who Putin wanted or didn't want as US president? There is no goddammed way that should have made a slight difference since:
1. The US has directly interfered with elections and overthrown governments in 87 nations..by last count. One of them being Russia! If you recall that Time Magazine story and cover I posted months ago, that featured American 'experts' bragging about how they got the thoroughly despised Yeltsin re-elected back in 96. Time changed their appreciation of the story and don't include it in their archives today. But, it will always be available from other sources. Sort of makes this whole story pale by comparison!

2. As Citizen Kane and other point out about this $100,000 Facebook ads story, it would have negligible effect compared to the avalanche of ads, let alone free publicity that Trump received daily from CNN and MSDNC. They did more to get Trump elected than any Russian source! If the Dems couldn't make the unelectable electable, that's their fault!

3. this new cold war against Russia threatens one clearly beneficial policy the Russian government and one or two Russian corporations are doing: picking up the slack and sponsoring marginalized alternative media in the US. Most of the show hosts on RT and Sputnik Radio are far from radical...they have been mostly former MSM hosts and reporters who found themselves frozen out by the BORG's new policies of not tolerating antiwar and anti-'free trade' speech.

4. why is nothing said about other nations who have interfered with US government and elections....Israel and Saudi Arabia for instance?
4. The Zionists and SA Wahhabis can go to hell.

3. These US citizens who take up with state run and owned "corporations" give tacit approval to a murdering liar who makes Trump look minor league.

2. I said, Putin will never leave an easily traceable trail, which you ignored.

1. Russia/the Soviet Union's trademark was "meddling" in other nations' elections, so the question arises: Why does US meddling draw your ire?
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Old July 7th, 2018, 08:16 AM   #52
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That hasn't been being said. It's only ignorant righties that claim voter fraud. What is being stated is that Russia engaged in a massive social media campaign to convince the unthinking element, accurately characterized as the deplorables, to vote for this lying, incompetent charlatan.
The Russians need not to have bothered. After 8-years of Obimbo the country was more than need of change.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 08:43 AM   #53
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No, they did not. The DNC paid Fusion GPS for opposition research. Fusion GPS, in turn, hired Steele.
As if laundering it, makes a difference. Ridiculous. do you hear this stuff in your head before you type it? Think about it.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 08:51 AM   #54
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As if laundering it, makes a difference. Ridiculous. do you hear this stuff in your head before you type it? Think about it.
Laundering? Man you are really getting desperate to be bringing up totally illogical excuses.

That one isn't even close to having any relevance to your message. What's wrong? Haven't Druggie Limbaugh, Breitbart or Faux Views fed you the official party line on this yet?
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Old July 7th, 2018, 08:56 AM   #55
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What specific points in the Steeele Dossier has been proven wrong in your opinion ?
Carter Page.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 08:57 AM   #56
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Laundering? Man you are really getting desperate to be bringing up totally illogical excuses.

That one isn't even close to having any relevance to your message. What's wrong? Haven't Druggie Limbaugh, Breitbart or Faux Views fed you the official party line on this yet?
What part of the unverified dossier proves Trump was in collusion with the Russians?
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Old July 7th, 2018, 10:31 AM   #57
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AND we've come full circle: THEY DID IT TOO.
So, what are you arguing about then?

Nobody seems to mind Israel meddling in US elections/ the US has by far the largest and most unaffordable military/security complex in the world today, and is easily the most dangerous nuclear power also! Not Russia, not North Korea, it's your own country that has set up nuclear-tipped missiles on hair-trigger alert, and is most likely to end life on Earth today! Back in the old days of the Cold War, most US policymakers were at least pragmatic, and not expecting the entire world to bow down to America's dictates. That's all changed in the era of "The New American Century."

If the world doesn't end soon, I expect there is going to be a pushback against the US of global proportions, as Trump has finally revealed openly what many of us expected for years: America's armtwisting and ruthless exploitation of Latin America and the Global South would become the policy to deal with the so called 'advance' western nations, including Europe and Canada. There will be a global and mostly uncoordinated move to disentangle our economies from the Dollar and trade pacts like NAFTA, which did not bring the promised economic benefits to either Canada or Mexico, and instead have restricted our economic independence.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 10:44 AM   #58
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4. The Zionists and SA Wahhabis can go to hell.

3. These US citizens who take up with state run and owned "corporations" give tacit approval to a murdering liar who makes Trump look minor league.

2. I said, Putin will never leave an easily traceable trail, which you ignored.

1. Russia/the Soviet Union's trademark was "meddling" in other nations' elections, so the question arises: Why does US meddling draw your ire?
1. I already explained above.
2. It doesn't matter a whole lot what trails Putin leaves or doesn't leave.
3. The Israelis and Saudis are interwoven into the fabric of both official parties in America today.

As the documentary movie: The Lab clearly shows, if Israel had no other reason to find favor with US policymakers, they serve as the weapons lab and training facility for US and allied militaries around the world.

If you weren't aware of it, Israel was brought in during the Contra wars to train Guatemalan death squads that went rampaging through the Mayan highlands of northern Guatemala. While today, we learn that Israel is both arming and training the Azov Battalion...that appears to be running the Ukraine today:

https://electronicintifada.net/conte...-ukraine/24876

Quote:
Israeli arms are being sent to a heavily armed neo-Nazi militia in Ukraine, The Electronic Intifada has learned.

Azov Battalion online propaganda shows Israeli-licensed Tavor rifles in the fascist group’s hands, while Israeli human rights activists have protested arms sales to Ukraine on the basis that weapons might end up with anti-Semitic militias.

In a letter “about licenses for Ukraine” obtained by The Electronic Intifada, the Israeli defense ministry’s arms export agency says they are “careful to grant licenses” to arms exporters “in full coordination with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other government entities.”

The 26 June letter was sent in reply to Israeli lawyer Eitay Mack who had written a detailed request demanding Israel end all military aid to the country.

Azov’s official status in the Ukrainian armed forces means it cannot be verified that “Israeli weapons and training” are not being used “by anti-Semitic or neo-Nazi soldiers,” Mack and 35 other human rights activists wrote.

They had written that Ukrainian armed forces use rifles made in Israel “and are trained by Israelis,” according to reports in the country.

The head of the Israeli arms export agency declined to deny the reports, or to even discuss cancellation of the weapons licenses, citing “security” concerns.

But Racheli Chen, the head of the agency, confirmed to Mack she had “carefully read your letter,” which detailed the fascist nature of Azov and the reports of Israeli arms and training.

Both the defense ministry letter and Mack’s original request can be read in the original Hebrew below.

Israeli rifles in Ukraine
The fact that Israeli arms are going to Ukrainian neo-Nazis is supported by Azov’s own online propaganda.

On its YouTube channel, Azov posted a video “review” of locally produced copies of two Israeli Tavor rifles – seen in this video:

A photo on Azov’s website also shows a Tavor in the hands of one of the militia’s officers.

The rifles are produced under licence from Israel Weapon Industries, and as such would have been authorized by the Israeli government.

IWI markets the Tavor as the “primary weapon” of the Israeli special forces.

It has been used in recent massacres of unarmed Palestinians taking part in Great March of Return protests in Gaza.

Fort, the Ukrainian state-owned arms company that produces the rifles under license, has a page about the Tavor on its website.

The Israel Weapon Industries logo also appears on its website, including on the “Our Partners” page.

Starting as a gang of fascist street thugs, the Azov Battalion is one of several far-right militias that have now been integrated as units of Ukraine’s National Guard.

Staunchly anti-Russian, Azov fought riot police during the 2013 US and EU-supported “Euromaidan” protests in the capital Kiev.

The protests and riots laid the ground for the 2014 coup which removed the pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych.

When the civil war began in eastern Ukraine against Russian-backed separatists, the new western-backed government began to arm Azov. The militia soon fell under the jurisdiction of the Ukrainian interior ministry, and saw some of the most intense frontline combat against the separatists.

The group stands accused in United Nations and Human Rights Watch reports of committing war crimes against pro-Russian separatists during the ongoing civil war in the eastern Donbass region, including torture, sexual violence and targeting of civilian homes.

Today, Azov is run by Arsen Avakov, Ukraine’s interior minister. According to the BBC, he pays its fighters, and has appointed one of its military commanders, Vadym Troyan, as his deputy – with control over the police.

Avakov last year met with the Israeli interior minister Aryeh Deri to discuss “fruitful cooperation.”

Azov’s young founder and first military commander Andriy Biletsky is today a lawmaker in the Ukrainian parliament.

As journalist Max Blumenthal explained on The Real News in February, Biletsky has “pledged to restore the honor of the white race” and has advanced laws forbidding “race mixing.”

According to The Telegraph, Biletsky in 2014 wrote that “the historic mission of our nation in this critical moment is to lead the white races of the world in a final crusade for their survival. A crusade against the Semite-led untermenschen.”

At a military training camp for children last year, The Guardian noticed that several Azov instructors had Nazi and other racist tattoos, including a swastika, the SS skull symbol and one that read “White Pride.”

One Azov soldier explained to The Guardian that he fights Russia because “Putin’s a Jew.”

Speaking to The Telegraph, another praised Adolf Hitler, said homosexuality is a “mental illness” and that the scale of the Holocaust “is a big question.”

An Azov drill sergeant once told USA Today “with a laugh” that “no more than half his comrades are fellow Nazis.”

An Azov spokesperson played that down, claiming that “only 10-20 percent” of the group’s members were Nazis.

Nonetheless, the sergeant “vowed that when the war ends, his comrades will march on the capital, Kiev, to oust a government they consider corrupt.”

After Azov’s founder Andriy Biletsky entered parliament, he threatened to dissolve it. “Take my word for it,” he said, “we have gathered here to begin the fight for power.”

Those promises were made in 2014, but there are early signs of them being fulfilled today.


This year the battalion has founded a new “National Militia” to bring the war home.

This well-organized gang is at the forefront of a growing wave of racist and anti-Semitic violence in Ukraine.

Led by its military veterans, it specializes in pogroms and thuggish enforcement of its political agenda.

Earlier this month, clad in balaclavas and wielding axes and baseball bats, members of the group destroyed a Romany camp in Kiev. In a YouTube video, apparently shot by the Azov thugs themselves, police turn up towards the end of the camp’s destruction.

They look on doing nothing, while the thugs cry, “Glory to the nation! Death to enemies!”


Israeli defense minister Avigdor Lieberman (left) met with the Ukranian prime minister last year to discuss deeper military ties. (Ukranian Government Portal)
Israel’s military aid to Ukraine and its neo-Nazis emulates similar programs by the United States and other NATO countries including the UK and Canada.

So obsessed are they with defeating a perceived threat from Russia that they seem happy to aid even openly Nazi militias – as long as they fight on their side.

This is also a throwback to the early Cold War, when the CIA supported fascists and Hitlerites to infiltrate from Austria into Hungary in 1956, where they began slaughtering Hungarian communist Jews and Hungarian Jews as “communists.”

Recent postings on Azov websites document a June meeting with the Canadian military attaché, Colonel Brian Irwin.


According to Azov, the Canadians concluded the briefing by expressing “their hopes for further fruitful cooperation.”

Irwin acknowledged receipt of an email from The Electronic Intifada, but did not answer questions about his meeting with the fascist militia.

A spokesperson for the Canadian defense department later sent a statement claiming that their “training of Ukrainian Armed Forces through Operation Unifier incorporates strong human rights elements.”

They said Canada is “strongly opposed to the glorification of Nazism and all forms of racism” but that “every country must come to grips with difficult periods in its past.”

The spokesperson, who did not provide a name, wrote that Canadian training “includes ongoing dialogue on the development of a diverse, and inclusive Ukraine.”

The statement said nothing about how alleged Canadian diversity training goes down with the Azov Battalion.

Also part of Colonel Irwin’s meeting was the head of Azov’s officer training academy, an institution named after right-wing Ukrainian nationalist Yevhen Konovalets.

Konovalets is one of the group’s idols, whose portrait frequently adorns its military iconography.

Konovalets was the founder of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), which later allied itself to Nazi Germany during its invasion of the Soviet Union.

The OUN took part in the notorious 1941 Lviv massacre, when the Nazis invaded Soviet territory.

During the pogrom, thousands of Jews were massacred in the now-Ukrainian city.

US aid to Nazis
Canada is of course not the only NATO “ally” to be sending arms to Ukraine.

As Max Blumenthal has extensively reported, US weapons, including rocket-propelled grenades, and training have been provided to Azov.

Under pressure from the Pentagon, a clause in the annually renewed defense bill banning US aid to Ukraine from going to the Azov Battalion was repeatedly stripped out.

This went on for three straight years before Democratic lawmaker Ro Khanna and others pushed it through earlier this year.

For his trouble Khanna was smeared in Washington as a “K Street sellout” who was “holding Putin’s dirty laundry.”

Despite the ban finally passing, Azov’s status as an official unit of the Ukrainian armed forces leaves it unclear how US aid can be separated out.

In 2014, the Israel lobby groups ADL and the Simon Wiesenthal Center refused to help a previous attempt to bar US aid to neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine.


A now-deleted photo from an Azov website showed US-licensed RPGs were going to the neo-Nazi militia.
The ADL argued that “the focus should be on Russia,” while the Wiesenthal Center pointed to the fact that other far-right leaders had met at the Israeli embassy in Ukraine – as if that somehow absolved their anti-Semitic views.

Attempts by some in Congress to bar US military aid to Nazis in Ukraine may explain military aid from Israel.

Israel’s “deepening military-technical cooperation” with Ukraine and its fascist militias is likely a way to help its partner in the White House, and is another facet of the growing Zionist-White Supremacist alliance.

Israel has historically acted as a useful route through which US presidents and the CIA can circumvent congressional restrictions on aid to various unsavory groups and governments around the world.

In 1980s Latin America, these included the Contras, who were fighting a war against the left-wing revolutionary government of Nicaragua, as well as a host of other Latin American fascist death squads and military dictatorships.

It also included the South African apartheid regime, which Israeli governments of both the “Zionist left” and Likudnik right armed for decades.

As quoted in Andrew and Leslie Cockburn’s book Dangerous Liaison, one former member of the Israeli parliament, General Mattityahu Peled, put it succinctly: “In Central America, Israel is the ‘dirty work’ contractor for the US administration. Israel is acting as an accomplice and an arm of the United States.”

Amid an alarming rise in anti-Semitism and neo-Nazism, Israel now appears to be reprising this role in eastern Europe.

With translation from Hebrew by Dena Shunra.

Asa Winstanley is an associate editor with The Electronic Intifada.
https://electronicintifada.net/conte...-ukraine/24876

This reprises the role Israel played in Apartheid era South Africa back in the 70's and 80's, where...as with Azov, a partnership somehow develops between Israel and an anti-Jewish government.

And as with South Africa, Israel is obviously not a free agent in these operations, but is working with full support of the US Government...once again in operations the US doesn't want to get their hands dirty with!

Like the old saying goes: clean up your own house before you go around pointing fingers and making demands of others! Israel and Saudi Arabia are both with you if you are not willing to speak out against US foreign policy or demand that whatever official party you support does likewise. I condemn Canadian governments like the present Trudeau Government, which is apparently going along with...whatever the plan is, and playing some small clandestine role in supporting Azov. It's something that his father- Pierre Trudeau would have never agreed with when he was Prime Minister a few decades ago!

Last edited by right to left; July 7th, 2018 at 10:50 AM.
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Old July 7th, 2018, 10:59 AM   #59
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1. I already explained above.
2. It doesn't matter a whole lot what trails Putin leaves or doesn't leave.
3. The Israelis and Saudis are interwoven into the fabric of both official parties in America today.

As the documentary movie: The Lab clearly shows, if Israel had no other reason to find favor with US policymakers, they serve as the weapons lab and training facility for US and allied militaries around the world.

~snip~
If the US disappeared tomorrow, what would take its place?
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Old July 7th, 2018, 11:56 AM   #60
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That hasn't been being said. It's only ignorant righties that claim voter fraud. What is being stated is that Russia engaged in a massive social media campaign to convince the unthinking element, accurately characterized as the deplorables, to vote for this lying, incompetent charlatan.
Obimbo knew Russia was trying to influence elections. And yet, we heard nothing? Why did it become important now?
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