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Old July 7th, 2018, 12:39 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
Obimbo knew Russia was trying to influence elections. And yet, we heard nothing? Why did it become important now?


Wait. So now ARE you saying that Russia DID meddle in our election and Obama knew, but you don't agree with your president who claims our intelligence agencies are just exaggerating and he believes Putin who says it didn't happen?

Which is it?

Now you say "WE HEARD NOTHING"??

FACT CHECK: This is complicated and goes beyond a simple "True" or "False". One basic notion that is false is the idea the Obama administration took no action — it did. The question that has been asked many times since the presidential election is why it didn't do more.


PRIVATE WARNINGS: Among other things, top U.S. intelligence officials — including then-CIA Director John Brennan — privately warned their Russian counterparts not to persist with their active measures. Obama himself told Russian President Vladimir Putin not to interfere in the election. These warnings did not work.

PUBLICITY: Obama administration officials also told reporters on background that Russian intelligence operatives were behind the cyberattacks that led to the release of emails stolen from political figures and institutions. Later, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson formally blamed the Russian government in an official statement.

Although it wasn't universally accepted, the active measures campaign became a part of the political campaign itself. Trump and opponent Hillary Clinton traded barbs about the Russian interference during their debates.

BUT YOU/WE? HEARD. NOTHING. You can't possibly be that stupid...and yet....
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Last edited by Clara007; July 7th, 2018 at 12:41 PM.
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Old July 8th, 2018, 10:36 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Well, let's see. Doesn't Snowden still call Russia his home? Isn't Assange still hiding out in the Ecuadorian embassy?

Do you think Putin would leave an easily uncovered trail?

Putin counts on the American habit of only looking one step ahead. Putin and Xi play generational politics facilitated by employing generational political maneuvering.

I'm tired of saying it, but my Russian born wife has a little IPTV box, Kartina TV, and I watched it all unfold, with an interpreter whom I trust .

Russians were assured that a Trump victory meant sanctions lifted and Russia's annexation accepted. It meant far less US connection with and support for NATO.

While the last two have become reality, the first goal hasn't. So, doesn't that show the whole Russian interference/collusion theory is bogus.

See: generational political maneuvering.
Since Snowden is in the Ecuadorian embassy, he is residing in Ecuador. What makes you think Trump victory means sanctions will be lifted? Trump did not hesitate to kill over 200 Russian soldiers in Syria.
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Old July 8th, 2018, 10:45 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
Wait. So now ARE you saying that Russia DID meddle in our election and Obama knew, but you don't agree with your president who claims our intelligence agencies are just exaggerating and he believes Putin who says it didn't happen?

Which is it?

Now you say "WE HEARD NOTHING"??

FACT CHECK: This is complicated and goes beyond a simple "True" or "False". One basic notion that is false is the idea the Obama administration took no action — it did. The question that has been asked many times since the presidential election is why it didn't do more.


PRIVATE WARNINGS: Among other things, top U.S. intelligence officials — including then-CIA Director John Brennan — privately warned their Russian counterparts not to persist with their active measures. Obama himself told Russian President Vladimir Putin not to interfere in the election. These warnings did not work.

PUBLICITY: Obama administration officials also told reporters on background that Russian intelligence operatives were behind the cyberattacks that led to the release of emails stolen from political figures and institutions. Later, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson formally blamed the Russian government in an official statement.

Although it wasn't universally accepted, the active measures campaign became a part of the political campaign itself. Trump and opponent Hillary Clinton traded barbs about the Russian interference during their debates.

BUT YOU/WE? HEARD. NOTHING. You can't possibly be that stupid...and yet....
It's not a matter of either or. It's a matter of knowing the Russians were meddling long before Trump came along. And little to nothing was done. It was only "after" Hillary got bitch slapped that the Russian meddling rose to importance. Enough so, that the Liberal MSM pounced on the Russian meddling meme and have chewed on it like a dog on a bone. Did the MSM go to any great lengths to edify Russian meddling before Trump? The answer, to anyone of an IQ higher than swamp-gas, would have to answer, NO!
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Old July 8th, 2018, 10:51 AM   #64
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Since Snowden is in the Ecuadorian embassy, he is residing in Ecuador. What makes you think Trump victory means sanctions will be lifted? Trump did not hesitate to kill over 200 Russian soldiers in Syria.
Yes, that's just one of the truly stupid and/or insane things he's done.

I didn't think a Trump victory meant sanctions lifted. That's what the Russian people were told and what they expected in what they saw as an unlikely win by Trump.

Quote:
Russia’s rouble currency and stocks gained on the Trump election victory. Ukraine’s dollar-denominated bonds tumbled to multi-month lows, reflecting pessimism about what a Trump presidency means for the divided and indebted country.

The Kremlin had been bracing for fraught relations if the White House had been won by Hillary Clinton - a politician Putin once accused of stirring up protests against him and who state media portrayed as an anti-Russian warmonger.

Trump was portrayed in a more positive light. Putin described him as “very talented” and in Kremlin-backed media he was cast as a plucky political maverick.

...Once it became clear he had won, Russia’s parliament erupted in applause and Putin told foreign ambassadors he was ready to fully restore ties with Washington.

State TV ran a clip of a Russian doppelganger of Trump taunting a cowed Clinton lookalike and Margarita Simonyan, the boss of RT, the Kremlin’s English-language TV news channel, said she would drive around Moscow with a U.S. flag to celebrate....
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1342FJ

And Trump tried.

TRUMP WHITE HOUSE MADE SECRET EFFORTS TO REMOVE RUSSIA SANCTIONS

And balked.

Donald Trump ‘refuses to put new sanctions on Russia’ despite US ambassador already announcing them
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Old July 8th, 2018, 10:54 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
It's not a matter of either or. It's a matter of knowing the Russians were meddling long before Trump came along. And little to nothing was done. It was only "after" Hillary got bitch slapped that the Russian meddling rose to importance. Enough so, that the Liberal MSM pounced on the Russian meddling meme and have chewed on it like a dog on a bone. Did the MSM go to any great lengths to edify Russian meddling before Trump? The answer, to anyone of an IQ higher than swamp-gas, would have to answer, NO!
If in fact Russian meddling did occur, are you advocating that it should simply be ignored?
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Old July 8th, 2018, 11:05 AM   #66
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The Classic Strawman Argument the left just loves to play....Nobody is claiming the Russians did not meddle in our elections....Nobody is claiming it should be ignored....

The question is....."How did the Russians benefit Trump?"...What exactly did the Russians do that tilted the election in Trump's favor....What advantage did Trump receive from the Russians??...The irrefutable facts are Hillary lost the election because she ran one God-awful campaign and maybe Comey's timing of the Weiner laptop re-opening of Hillary's Investigation played a minor part in her loss....

Now, I got it.... Trump and Putin colluded to have Comey (he was in on it too) re-open the Investigation 2 weeks before the election....Them Bastards!!!
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Old July 8th, 2018, 11:10 AM   #67
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If in fact Russian meddling did occur, are you advocating that it should simply be ignored?
Of course not. But, what did Obimbo do when he knew it was happening? As long as it wasn't affecting his election everything was fine. But, what did the Democrats jump on when Hillary lost? It was little to no importance before Hillary. There is now enough evidence to prove Russia was meddling. If someone wants to fault Trump on not doing enough to stop it at this point, I wouldn't disagree.
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Old July 8th, 2018, 11:39 AM   #68
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If the US disappeared tomorrow, what would take its place?
Probably China, but how does that excuse what is happening today?

If the American Empire decided to work for what was in the best interests of the global community, rather than try to increase its power and monopolize global access to resources etc., then maybe we wouldn't have to fear the rise of a Chinese empire again out of the east.

*fwiw, when the Chinese Empire was at its height in the 12th or 13th centuries, the emperor financed ocean-going wooden sailing ships to explore the Pacific and Indian Oceans on the middle ages equivalent of the Moon landings and unmanned satellites to the outer solar system. And these Chinese mariners were also given the task to look for opportunities to trade and barter with people in newly discovered lands. BUT the one clear difference between China and the later European conquistadors and other venturers was that they were not saddled down with debts that could only be paid by finding gold or establishing slave colonies in the New World (Columbus for example!), so China never went through a process of colonization even though they had all of the technological prowess to have done so.
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Old July 8th, 2018, 11:42 AM   #69
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The Classic Strawman Argument the left just loves to play....Nobody is claiming the Russians did not meddle in our elections....Nobody is claiming it should be ignored....

The question is....."How did the Russians benefit Trump?"...What exactly did the Russians do that tilted the election in Trump's favor....What advantage did Trump receive from the Russians??...The irrefutable facts are Hillary lost the election because she ran one God-awful campaign and maybe Comey's timing of the Weiner laptop re-opening of Hillary's Investigation played a minor part in her loss....

Now, I got it.... Trump and Putin colluded to have Comey (he was in on it too) re-open the Investigation 2 weeks before the election....Them Bastards!!!
See! The conservatives also want to go to war with Russia just like you cruise missile-liberals do!
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Old July 8th, 2018, 11:47 AM   #70
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See! The conservatives also want to go to war with Russia just like you cruise missile-liberals do!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh??????????????......Explain that one to me.... I have never been called a "cruise missile Liberal" before, let alone a liberal....

I don't want to go to war with anyone, especially someone with 3000 nukes and the delivery systems... My question is Knowing that the Russians do meddle with other countries elections..How do we know when they are doing something like that again, what exactly are they doing, and how are we going to stop it..??
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