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Old January 14th, 2017, 04:32 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Jimgorn View Post
Here's the part that don't pass the smell test....McCain gets this dossier with the piddlin' on the bed in it..(from where??)..He turns it over to the FBI, which is the right thing to do, depending on how he got it.....Now if the FBI has it....who, or how did it get to Buzzfeed? (the public domain)...did the FBI leak it???....Did McCain leak it??....Did the Russkis leak it??....did Meryl Streep leak it??
There have been copies circulating since June.
That's why BuzzFeed was justified in publishing the dossier.
Not as an established fact, that everything in the dossier was true.
But as a fact, this is the dossier that everyone is talking about.
This dossier was paid for by Republicans, as opposition research for the primaries.
Wouldn't it be supreme irony if the guy who paid for it, is one of the guys who got a cushy post in the Trump Administration?
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Old January 14th, 2017, 04:35 AM   #92
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Now, if that part is true, I have lost some respect for Trump
I have hired hookers/dancers to clean before. Money well spent.
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Old January 14th, 2017, 05:11 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
That's where you're totally wrong! Everybody to the left of center had no trouble tying a can to George Bush's tail cause centrist MSM was more than happy to give some of their air time and blog space to critics of his war and neoliberal economic policies.

But then along came the Messiah....I mean Barack...and what gets dubbed "left media" totally lost their shit for 8 years and still can't stop swooning about how wonderful and great he was, even though he didn't give a rat's ass about ordinary people of any color/ just his well-heeled friends who will richly reward him in the future for the services he has provided them! Hell, if he had pulled off the Holy Grail (getting TPP, TISA and TTIP ratified), he would be retiring into billionaire status within 10 years. And I believe that's why he's been sniping and looking so pissed of late.

It makes me sick that there are so many followers of corporate liberal propaganda on the web, that the canonization of Barack Obama will continue on for years, and with having Trump as the replacement, will sweep all the wars instigated, the war crimes, the declines in US living standards, the unwillingness to do anything of substance on climate and other environmental issues...all those things will be swept aside as image of Barack looks more fondly in the rearview mirror!

For an honest appraisal of Obama and the majority of the Black political class in America, I usually turn to Glenn Ford of Black Agenda Report:

Obama?s Last Presidential Lies | Black Agenda Report

On Twitter yesterday, I had as close as what you can call a conversation in 140 character land with a close follower/friend on the subject of the Obama war legacy...which was basically his entire two terms in office. The question was WHY don't more Americans focus on the wars, the military spending, the US-committed war crimes and "collateral damage?" My own theory is that it's mostly because it's a war-made-easy world we live in now, because the only cost to Americans is financial! There is no direct risk of being killed or maimed for life in a battle overseas when there's no draft, and the only Americans who serve are the other one percent...the small minority of youth who've been sucked in to the valorization of war, thanks to the Hollywood propaganda movies and the even more propagandistic video games + the growing numbers of young people who have no options for a better life than to sign up for service during times when proxies and robots aren't getting the job done overseas.

As long as it's someone else doing the fighting, there are more important issues on people's minds....which explains in large part why Bernie Sanders went from being an antiwar draft dodger and activist through the 70's to ignoring the whole foreign policy portfolio by the time he made a run for the White House. Ideals aside, Sanders does give clues that he reads the polls, and after Iraq 2003, there was no upside in voting against or speaking out against US war policies.

So, now that "the more effective evil" is heading out the door, it will be a lot easier to focus attention again on what the Empire does to the colonies. Although I'm not holding my breath for any change in neoconservative rhetoric coming from the liberal establishment like the New Yorker...which published a piece yesterday fluffing Gen. Mathis as the insider who might take on Trump. If this is true, I hope Trump wins that showdown if it happens and fires his ass out the door! But it is revealing to look at the maniacs the liberal establishment like the New Yorker, Huffpo, the Nation etc. are all cheering for today!
That's all really interesting, but irrelevant to the point I made.

And blaming all the shortcomings of the last eight years on Obama is far from reality. What bloody bullshit to assert that Obama had eight years of non-stop media blessings. Every single conspiracy theory dreamed up by the right side's sore losers, every single bit of right side fake news was front and center.

The Obama war legacy? The Obama war legacy?

You've joined those who have created a fake reality account of the last eight years.

But back to Bush, GW screwed this country worse than Obama, worse than any president in my lifetime. His screwings resulted in generational damage, resulted in the "Obama war legacy" because his ridiculous notion of "spreading democracy" was pure neocon fantasy, which they knew. Continuous warfare was the neocons' goal, and I will admit Obama handled "The New American Century" poorly, but then again if you are in a car headed for a dead end with not enough time to stop and someone hands you the wheel....

The "with us or against us" Iraq invasion ignited Putin, ended the brief moments of world unity following 911, a unity never to be duplicated.

GW's permission given to humiliating enemy prisoners forever stained the reputation of the US.

His lies, his connecting Saddam and 911 began the front-page era of fake news.

His drunken state on the world stage Olympics disgraced the office of president.

He was used by the evil cabal that surrounded him, and the fact is: the neocons' hope was realized, to inflame the Middle East in a way that ensured US involvement for generations. Hell, the sons of bitches said, on the outset, that the War on Terror was a generational war.

And now some of the same morons who till this day continue defending GW Bush and the bastard neocons who surrounded him and led his foreign policies aren't missing a beat and are getting behind a president who before being sworn in has revealed his dictatorial demeanor, a demeanor that will continue to amplify and amplify some more.

The Donald will demonstrate conclusively that running government like a business isn't a good idea. We've entered the age of the US oligarchy, of not only empire but emperor. Trump's "hope and change," oops, I meant his MAGA, will make Obama's failures seem inconsequential.

And count on it. The New American Century of never-ending neocon warfare will continue. Your and your kin's attempts to shift the blame to Obama for the neocon state in which live are disgraceful and dishonorable.
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Old January 15th, 2017, 12:18 AM   #94
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I didn't have time to deal with this one earlier:
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
That's all really interesting, but irrelevant to the point I made.
Your point was what logicians call "special pleading." Bush's approval ratings were pretty dismal by the time he left office, because the media and most Democrats started turning against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and his faint hope of getting out of Dodge before the economic bubble collapsed failed with the banking and real estate meltdown. Now, compare that to Obama....what are his accomplishments again?

Quote:
And blaming all the shortcomings of the last eight years on Obama is far from reality. What bloody bullshit to assert that Obama had eight years of non-stop media blessings. Every single conspiracy theory dreamed up by the right side's sore losers, every single bit of right side fake news was front and center.
Special pleading again! Mainstream, acceptable corporate media was right in his corner throughout two terms...hence much higher job approval ratings for having little to show for it.

Quote:
The Obama war legacy? The Obama war legacy?
Did you miss the point recently that Mr. Nobel Peace Prize-winning president will retire next week as the ONLY president to be at war during his entire two terms in office!
*news flash: according to Military.com, because the Taleban appears set to overrun Helmund Province in Afghanistan, 300 marine "advisers" are being sent there to try to stop them from taking over the capital...so much for that Afghan Surge bringing this one to an early conclusion!
U.S. to send 300 Marines to Afghanistan's Helmand province | Reuters
And then there's Yemen! Ghastly war crimes, including mass starvation of major cities are happening there right now, and you can't find a fucking thing about it in US corporate media!
So, RT is supposed to be fake news according to the true sources of bullshit like the Washington Post, but RT's Arabic Division are the only ones on the ground there trying to get the story out to the rest of the Arab World..and eventually to America..the war criminals who make Saudi War Crimes possible!
https://www.rt.com/news/373712-yemen...shing-houthis/
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Nearly 19 million Yemenis are in need of humanitarian aid, according to the UN, but the worst of the civilian impact of the two-year civil war in the country has fallen on the district of Tuhayat on the Red Sea coast..................
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You've joined those who have created a fake reality account of the last eight years.
And what is "fake reality?" If it's fake, it's not reality; and if it's reality, it's not fake.
Quote:
But back to Bush, GW screwed this country worse than Obama, worse than any president in my lifetime. His screwings resulted in generational damage, resulted in the "Obama war legacy" because his ridiculous notion of "spreading democracy" was pure neocon fantasy, which they knew. Continuous warfare was the neocons' goal, and I will admit Obama handled "The New American Century" poorly, but then again if you are in a car headed for a dead end with not enough time to stop and someone hands you the wheel....
Do you recall a brief statement that goes:"we choose to look forward, not back?" It came out of Barack Obama's mouth not very long after assuming office, and ended any speculation that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and others would face war crimes charges. As I recall, Cheney seemed the most concerned about investigations and facing some sort of trial. But, after that, he stopped making threats and quietly shuffled off back to his crypt.

When Obama was running for president in 08...if anyone recalls, he declared a number of times right in the Democratic debates that Iraq was the wrong war/but Afghanistan was the right one apparently, and was talking about an Afghan surge long before he took office.....how did that one work out? And yet he collected a Nobel Prize almost as soon as he walked in to the front door at the White House. Maybe they'll give one to Trump too, and every other new US president upon assuming office!
Quote:
The "with us or against us" Iraq invasion ignited Putin, ended the brief moments of world unity following 911, a unity never to be duplicated.
No, I don't think Putin trusted Bush much from the start, and the main friction was regarding a continuing of the encirclement strategy that Clinton started on the Eastern Front. The Bush Admin sunk a lot of money into propping up an unpopular dictatoral president of Georgia, and was talking about making it the next NATO member. Two Russian enclaves within Georgia revolted and declared independence....with or without the help of Putin. It was not very likely Putin's first option to carve out another small Russian enclave that doesn't have the resources to support itself and burden the Russian treasury.

And the US was also trying to turn the other southern, former Soviet republics against Russia also...mostly to get natural gas pipelines built, but also as bases and staging areas in the Afghanistan War.

Quote:
GW's permission given to humiliating enemy prisoners forever stained the reputation of the US.
And where was the war crimes trial after he left office?

Quote:
He was used by the evil cabal that surrounded him, and the fact is: the neocons' hope was realized, to inflame the Middle East in a way that ensured US involvement for generations. Hell, the sons of bitches said, on the outset, that the War on Terror was a generational war.
You likely aren't aware of this, but many insiders...or at least claimed insiders, have testified independently that Bush became disillusioned with the real president - Cheney's policymaking ventures, and quietly pushed Cheney away from giving orders to the State Dept. and left him out of cabinet meetings in the final two years of his 2nd term. Many observers were expecting some form of combined US/Israel attack on Iran (especially Netanyahu), and Bush shut it down! So, give him credit for at least not going along with that war!

Quote:
And now some of the same morons who till this day continue defending GW Bush and the bastard neocons who surrounded him and led his foreign policies aren't missing a beat and are getting behind a president who before being sworn in has revealed his dictatorial demeanor, a demeanor that will continue to amplify and amplify some more.
In case you weren't aware of it, George Bush wasn't invited to GOP conventions after he left office, and has been almost invisible....so who's been defending Bush again?
Quote:
The Donald will demonstrate conclusively that running government like a business isn't a good idea. We've entered the age of the US oligarchy, of not only empire but emperor. Trump's "hope and change," oops, I meant his MAGA, will make Obama's failures seem inconsequential.
You're saying that the oligarchy is just beginning now? The only thing I can see different is that Trump has eliminated the middle man, and is putting the CEO's directly in charge of important cabinet portfolios. Previously, the oligarchs had to do this by paid representatives...which is likely the way most of them prefer it! Rather than be right out there in front, where everyone can see them and what they're doing.

And if Trump is worse than Obama, that's some kind of plus for Obama! How?

Quote:
And count on it. The New American Century of never-ending neocon warfare will continue. Your and your kin's attempts to shift the blame to Obama for the neocon state in which live are disgraceful and dishonorable.
Obama continued that Neocon warfare in case you weren't aware of it! Even starting his own regime change operations in Libya, Syria, Ukraine and Honduras...overthrowing a democratically elected government because he delivered on a promised minimum wage that US fruit-growers didn't want.
And it's not like Trump is going to start new wars...or maybe he will, but he's got 7 wars he will inherit next weekend, that he has to deal with also.

One thing I notice from both conservatives and liberals is that the vast majority of you subscribe to the Great Man theory of history...meaning that history is made and changed by singular, exceptional leaders...and I think it's bullshit!

Donald Trump is where he is now, because America has gone further done the toilet than it was in 2012...when Trump also ran for president... mostly on his birther conspiracy theory, and made very little impact in the Republican race. Yet this time something was very different. Right from the start, Trump was connecting strongly with supporters, many of whom wouldn't have listened to him even four years ago.
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Old January 15th, 2017, 04:07 AM   #95
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I have hired hookers/dancers to clean before. Money well spent.


The question is.....CLEAN what???
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Old January 15th, 2017, 04:15 AM   #96
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Does anyone really care if Trump paid for it when visiting Russia? Is it illegal for an American to hire Russian prostitutes? I don't believe for a second that it happened but even if it did, I don't give a shit. I want President Elect Donald J Trump to fix our economy not teach morals.
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Old January 15th, 2017, 05:42 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
Does anyone really care if Trump paid for it when visiting Russia? Is it illegal for an American to hire Russian prostitutes? I don't believe for a second that it happened but even if it did, I don't give a shit. I want President Elect Donald J Trump to fix our economy not teach morals.
If you aren't worried about morals, then you might want to concern yourself less with Obamas daughters and stop slut shaming them.
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Old January 15th, 2017, 08:40 AM   #98
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If you aren't worried about morals, then you might want to concern yourself less with Obamas daughters and stop slut shaming them.
I know this totally escapes you but in one case we are talking about something that happened years ago and in the other we are talking about something that is current. If Miss Obama wants to shake her butt like a tramp on video that is her option.
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Old January 15th, 2017, 08:48 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
Does anyone really care if Trump paid for it when visiting Russia? Is it illegal for an American to hire Russian prostitutes? I don't believe for a second that it happened but even if it did, I don't give a shit. I want President Elect Donald J Trump to fix our economy not teach morals.
And he's going to do the same thing to the American Economy that those Russian prostitutes did to that hotel room bed.

Call it "trickle down theory"
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Old January 15th, 2017, 03:55 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
There have been copies circulating since June.
That's why BuzzFeed was justified in publishing the dossier.
Not as an established fact, that everything in the dossier was true.
But as a fact, this is the dossier that everyone is talking about.
This dossier was paid for by Republicans, as opposition research for the primaries.
Wouldn't it be supreme irony if the guy who paid for it, is one of the guys who got a cushy post in the Trump Administration?
I would not be surprised if McCain paid for it....Why did he send a courier to London to get it if the FBI already had it??
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