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Old February 11th, 2018, 09:13 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
Let us talk about our reliance on nuclear weapons and we have spent money for this rather than education or medical science and care. It is all about fear and private interest that profit from our fear.

https://www.brookings.edu/the-econom...clear-weapons/
That's the scary thing about this..and just about every other weapons system designed, produced and used in battle: the primary motivation for today's armies, including the US Armed Forces, is nothing to do with strategic of tactical, as much as it is a maniacle corporation that want their weapons used in battle....somewhere...if they sell a big, grossly overpriced weapons system that is not being used, they fear reaching a point where there aren't enough John McCains to shake the trees in Washington to make federal money fall out for them! And that includes the companies that make the nukes...especially "tactical" nukes. What are the odds that they want some sort of reason concocted to use at least one of them in an attack, so that the orders will keep coming in even when there is no sensible argument for making more of them?
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Old February 11th, 2018, 10:57 AM   #52
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That's the scary thing about this..and just about every other weapons system designed, produced and used in battle: the primary motivation for today's armies, including the US Armed Forces, is nothing to do with strategic of tactical, as much as it is a maniacle corporation that want their weapons used in battle....somewhere...if they sell a big, grossly overpriced weapons system that is not being used, they fear reaching a point where there aren't enough John McCains to shake the trees in Washington to make federal money fall out for them! And that includes the companies that make the nukes...especially "tactical" nukes. What are the odds that they want some sort of reason concocted to use at least one of them in an attack, so that the orders will keep coming in even when there is no sensible argument for making more of them?
Everyone should watch the movie, Snowden! That is a whole different way of understanding modern warfare and where our money is going. That is not the only thing we can learn from the movie. Our liberty is on the line and the mentality of our times is the greatest danger to our liberty and the world.

This shit begins with wanting to get in on the big bucks of a government contract, but it snowballs from there to us all feeding the beast that has nothing to do with the best interest of mankind.

There are many people in the forum and they are not participating in discussions of very serious issues. Snowden said the best thing we can do is start talking and I wish there were more involvement. Beginning with the Franklin Roosevelt administration when Hoover and Roosevelt worked together to organize a far more controlling government than we ever had, through the end of WWII and concern of the industrial government connections created during the war years, the beast has consumed us and we seem totally unaware of any change that is not desirable.

We need to throw in, while Democrats might be tax and spend, the Republics borrow and spend, and that sure as blazes is not the better!
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Old February 13th, 2018, 09:22 AM   #53
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Everyone should watch the movie, Snowden! That is a whole different way of understanding modern warfare and where our money is going. That is not the only thing we can learn from the movie. Our liberty is on the line and the mentality of our times is the greatest danger to our liberty and the world.

This shit begins with wanting to get in on the big bucks of a government contract, but it snowballs from there to us all feeding the beast that has nothing to do with the best interest of mankind.

There are many people in the forum and they are not participating in discussions of very serious issues. Snowden said the best thing we can do is start talking and I wish there were more involvement. Beginning with the Franklin Roosevelt administration when Hoover and Roosevelt worked together to organize a far more controlling government than we ever had, through the end of WWII and concern of the industrial government connections created during the war years, the beast has consumed us and we seem totally unaware of any change that is not desirable.

We need to throw in, while Democrats might be tax and spend, the Republics borrow and spend, and that sure as blazes is not the better!
In this day and age, I'm surprised the Snowden Movie got made and for awhile at least, was carried on HBO. There's very little else on what the authorities are trying to hide, and why revealing facts is criminalized and stamped as classified in many cases where there is no argument for it, other than keeping criminal activity secret!

The 'borrow and spend' strategy that took off under Reagan and then Bush, didn't happen by accident! That was planned out in advance by the neoliberal right, who had argued decades earlier, that Americans won't give up programs they love for a promise of lower taxes....so the solution was: just drive the government into bankruptcy and demand austerity cuts to social spending. The problem was that Democrats...mostly bought off by the same corporate interests as Republicans, declared "The Era of Big Government, Is Over!" and just followed a policy of Republican Lite when they were at the helm, so US politics since 1980 has been rightward with occassional pauses but no pushback left.

With that, the fractured and divided left that exists in America, has got to come together and decide once and for all whether they should keep working with the Democratic Party OR is the Party doomed to be a neverending source of disappointments? It's not enough to keep saying: a third party can't break out and win under the American system...if that's true, change the damn system! Cause what you got now is far from democracy when you take an honest look at it.

An argument (usually referred to as the "sheepdog strategy") contends that Democrats allow or cynically advance a chosen reformer of the left...who inevitably folds his tent and orders his followers to rally round the chosen candidate for the Fall Election. If it happened once or twice, it wouldn't be a trend, but it does happen over and over and over again, and the governing record of the winner...if he assumes office is one of few improvements on any issues! The whole process starts to look like a game after awhile, and maybe it's time for people to stop playing the game, even if Bernie says they have to, and take to the streets and stop the machine from working any way they can think of. It happens in other places where people become fed up with a process that only works for a small minority of the people, eventually enough people will get tired of the game and make a revolution happen in America also! Hopefully that will happen before Trump or some future demagogue is able to light up the world in a nuclear war.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 09:53 AM   #54
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In this day and age, I'm surprised the Snowden Movie got made and for awhile at least, was carried on HBO. There's very little else on what the authorities are trying to hide, and why revealing facts is criminalized and stamped as classified in many cases where there is no argument for it, other than keeping criminal activity secret!

The 'borrow and spend' strategy that took off under Reagan and then Bush, didn't happen by accident! That was planned out in advance by the neoliberal right, who had argued decades earlier, that Americans won't give up programs they love for a promise of lower taxes....so the solution was: just drive the government into bankruptcy and demand austerity cuts to social spending. The problem was that Democrats...mostly bought off by the same corporate interests as Republicans, declared "The Era of Big Government, Is Over!" and just followed a policy of Republican Lite when they were at the helm, so US politics since 1980 has been rightward with occassional pauses but no pushback left.

With that, the fractured and divided left that exists in America, has got to come together and decide once and for all whether they should keep working with the Democratic Party OR is the Party doomed to be a neverending source of disappointments? It's not enough to keep saying: a third party can't break out and win under the American system...if that's true, change the damn system! Cause what you got now is far from democracy when you take an honest look at it.

An argument (usually referred to as the "sheepdog strategy") contends that Democrats allow or cynically advance a chosen reformer of the left...who inevitably folds his tent and orders his followers to rally round the chosen candidate for the Fall Election. If it happened once or twice, it wouldn't be a trend, but it does happen over and over and over again, and the governing record of the winner...if he assumes office is one of few improvements on any issues! The whole process starts to look like a game after awhile, and maybe it's time for people to stop playing the game, even if Bernie says they have to, and take to the streets and stop the machine from working any way they can think of. It happens in other places where people become fed up with a process that only works for a small minority of the people, eventually enough people will get tired of the game and make a revolution happen in America also! Hopefully that will happen before Trump or some future demagogue is able to light up the world in a nuclear war.

Trump was elected by people who wanted the game to end and someone who would break the machine. Being destructive is easy. We need to change the rules of the game, not vote for another Trump.

Australia has a better system that makes if very possible for a third party to win. If the person you vote for doesn't win, your vote goes to your second choice and then your third choice. That is you do not lose your vote if your first choice doesn't win. There are plenty of times when someone other than a democrat or republican could have won, but people were afraid that would mean getting the worst possible choice, so they gave their to their party even though the party's candidate wasn't their favorite person.

Next, it should be law that every single bill is about one thing and one thing only. Never should a bill be passed or not passed because a second issue was attached to the bill.

And somehow we have to figure out a more efficient way of using the internet, so everything gets a popular vote. Then our representatives may or may not follow the popular vote. I would expect them to be in a position to know more then we do, so their judgment is needed, but if we don't like it and know the popular vote, we can better hold our representatives responsible. Democracy requires our involvement, and I don't think we are involved enough.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 09:56 AM   #55
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The very last thing we should do is restart the nuclear race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk-x5R4w68g
Then we should not have elected Obama who has allowed Iran and NOKO to become Nuclear.

Obama and Bush and Clinton let the Genies out of the bottle. Your not getting them back in
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Old February 13th, 2018, 10:05 AM   #56
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Then we should not have elected Obama who has allowed Iran and NOKO to become Nuclear.

Obama and Bush and Clinton let the Genies out of the bottle. Your not getting them back in
Yah, that's the thing about science. It's replicable - once the fact of nuclear fission was established in public back in 1945CE, anyone who was willing to invest the money, effort & resources - & who could train up or recruit the requisite skills - could do the same.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 10:18 AM   #57
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Yah, that's the thing about science. It's replicable - once the fact of nuclear fission was established in public back in 1945CE, anyone who was willing to invest the money, effort & resources - & who could train up or recruit the requisite skills - could do the same.
only if they have the materials to build. I can train and develop all the skills to shoot bulleyes at 1000 yards, but if I cannot get the rifle that has the range to shoot 1000 yards, my training and skills are for naught.

NOKO didn't have access to nuclear material to build their bombs until Clinton gave it to them, via Carters negotiated agreement.

I am SURE RNG is going to thank this post. But he sure jumped on your post that was totally uninformed.
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Old February 13th, 2018, 10:30 AM   #58
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only if they have the materials to build. I can train and develop all the skills to shoot bulleyes at 1000 yards, but if I cannot get the rifle that has the range to shoot 1000 yards, my training and skills are for naught.

NOKO didn't have access to nuclear material to build their bombs until Clinton gave it to them, via Carters negotiated agreement.

I am SURE RNG is going to thank this post. But he sure jumped on your post that was totally uninformed.
Sure, & you're welcome. The US could have maintained nuclear supremacy @ the end of WWII, I suppose - if we'd been willing to declare war on the USSR & nuke them, if need be (& it very likely would have been necessary, in order to force them to a peace agreement.)

Then we could have set up an empire - doling out technical assistance, food & aid only to countries that played ball. The will wasn't there in May 1945, when it actually would have been doable (if extremely distasteful - & that was the problem).

We weren't willing then, when World conditions were far more favorable, & we had the arms & navy & military in place to carry out the orders.

In the near term - Was Pres. Clinton supposed to abandon the cease fire in Korea, & unilaterally nuke N. Korea into submission? Should we have invaded N. Korea & forced regime change?

What is it you're calling for Pres. Clinton to have done?
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Old February 13th, 2018, 12:06 PM   #59
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Then we should not have elected Obama who has allowed Iran and NOKO to become Nuclear.

Obama and Bush and Clinton let the Genies out of the bottle. Your not getting them back in
Well, perhaps there are different ways of understanding the same thing. Obama was strongly against the spread of nuclear weapons and he firmly believed he stopped that. This link has a video of Obama explaining his position.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/node/343726
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Old February 13th, 2018, 12:09 PM   #60
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Yah, that's the thing about science. It's replicable - once the fact of nuclear fission was established in public back in 1945CE, anyone who was willing to invest the money, effort & resources - & who could train up or recruit the requisite skills - could do the same.
And let us forget, the US is the world leader. Do we like how Obama was leading or how Trump is leading?
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