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Old February 12th, 2018, 07:22 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
As usual, we need a definition. Neo-Conservatives. What are Neo-Conservatives?
Would you agree with this?

“Neocons” believe that the United States should not be ashamed to use its unrivaled power – forcefully if necessary – to promote its values around the world. Some even speak of the need to cultivate a US empire. Neoconservatives believe modern threats facing the US can no longer be reliably contained and therefore must be prevented, sometimes through preemptive military action.

Most neocons believe that the US has allowed dangers to gather by not spending enough on defense and not confronting threats aggressively enough.
Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel, which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region.
What does a neo-conservative world look like? And WHO (currently) is a genuine neo con??
Here's the "grandfather of neoconservatism," Irving Kristol, explaining what it is. It's the definitive explanation.

The Neoconservative Persuasion
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Old February 12th, 2018, 07:25 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
To be fair, that post was directed to Sabcat and not Panther.
Besides, i thought the RW conservatives LIKED people who were not all polite and PC, who "told it like it is', etc. etc. The RW conservatives don't approve of people that are civil, diplomatic and prone to compromise.

Out of respect for your request I will ease up. Hell, I've learned that it's likely to piss off the worst RW when I am unfailingly polite to them more than when I virtually slap them around a little.

They tend to get confounded and confused by words like "explain", clarify", "why" and "proof."
Apology for my error.

Let's not forget that the point of this thread is to offer Trump supporters a chance to truly help out those who don't support him, not put them down- for the umpteenth time - for supporting him.
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Old February 12th, 2018, 07:34 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Apology for my error.

Let's not forget that the point of this thread is to offer Trump supporters a chance to truly help out those who don't support him, not put them down- for the umpteenth time - for supporting him.
No apology needed.
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Old February 12th, 2018, 07:35 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
As usual, we need a definition. Neo-Conservatives. What are Neo-Conservatives?
Would you agree with this?

“Neocons” believe that the United States should not be ashamed to use its unrivaled power – forcefully if necessary – to promote its values around the world. Some even speak of the need to cultivate a US empire. Neoconservatives believe modern threats facing the US can no longer be reliably contained and therefore must be prevented, sometimes through preemptive military action.

Most neocons believe that the US has allowed dangers to gather by not spending enough on defense and not confronting threats aggressively enough.
Most neocons share unwavering support for Israel, which they see as crucial to US military sufficiency in a volatile region.
What does a neo-conservative world look like? And WHO (currently) is a genuine neo con??
Without Christianity how do the neo-cons justify their empire?
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Old February 12th, 2018, 07:49 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Here's the "grandfather of neoconservatism," Irving Kristol, explaining what it is. It's the definitive explanation.

The Neoconservative Persuasion


Hmmmm.....after reading that (which seemed like a word tossed salad) I am more confused than ever. Whatever happened to clear, concise bullet points?

LOL
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Old February 12th, 2018, 07:53 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
I am in no way in favor of war or increasing our global military presence but trump did not run under the pretense of no boots on the ground. It looks as if "isis" is 9n the decline, loosing ground. (Now my guess would be that the CIA or whoever is just moving their resources to Africa and that will be the new hot bed of terrorism or whatever) were you expecting that in a year a new POTUS would overturn decades of the MIC? There is a reason that that no name Kennedy was chosen to respond to the state of the union.


Trump is the anti pc figure that people who are sick to death of this insanity. He was created by the leftists running rampant trying to push this gendar spectrum, safe zone, language police on everyone. Remember the anchor baby speech? Where some leftist journalist stopped trump saying that anchor baby was offensive. Trump asked him what he should call them. The journalist said some crazy, postmodernist mouthful of nothingness. Trump cuts him off and says no. I think i will just use anchor baby.

Here it is


https://youtu.be/TPKuYhKanao

People saw slick taking, polished obama lie to them for years. Trump appears to cut to the case. People like that. Plus he is a capitalist. None of this "you didn't build it" crap.

If you want a specific answer, IT feel free i will give it a shot.
Whoo! we obviously have a culture war here! I am not sure which side you are on, but I much prefer Obama to Trump. Politics aside, I guess the real divide is between intellectual people who want to believe rule by reason is the human potential, and the non-intellectual people who don't think and are reactionary and are fine with getting their own way by force. What are the labels we should use for these different camps, conservatives and liberals? If that is the way we define the divide, then clearly, I am a liberal. However, I thought conservative meant preserving the past and I am strongly in favor of the old concepts of virtues and principles, so maybe I am a conservative?

I think Trump lacks virtues and principles, and that this is true of neo-con's even though they appeal to Christians.

I would like to know what lies Obama told. If a weather person says tomorrow it will rain and it does not rain, I do not assume the weather person lied to me. But I do believe Trump will say anything he thinks will get him what he wants, and I have seen videos of him saying opposite things at different times.

Last edited by Athena; February 12th, 2018 at 08:02 AM.
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Old February 12th, 2018, 08:22 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Every time I see a picture like this one:



I can't help thinking: middle school. The bad ass bully, son of rich dad who never does any of his clique's dirty work, breathing through his teeth, being all big and bad.

The repulsion I feel is so visceral. I got in the face of middle school bullies and invited them to buzz off. My friends did too. The "bad guys" almost always backed off.

Trump supporters, didn't you feel the same way about middle school bullies?
Isn't the greatest form of revenge to use them like a trained dog to further your own ends? : )
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Old February 12th, 2018, 08:24 AM   #68
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Look, I hear your POV and agree with your points, but at some point HW we either stop being so rough on each other or flat out start shooting, and that is a possibility, not a likelihood but a possibility. So please ease up on Panther HW. The task of healing our nation is huge, and it has to start somewhere so let's put our heads together and each of us chip in our two cents' worth.
Can you stop making things difficult.
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Old February 12th, 2018, 08:56 AM   #69
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Here's the "grandfather of neoconservatism," Irving Kristol, explaining what it is. It's the definitive explanation.

The Neoconservative Persuasion
If I am correct the link claims a neo-con is in favor of military buildup and taking economic risk. So a democrat such as Franklin Roosevelt is equal to a Republicans Reagan and Trump. That is confusing to me because Roosevelt increased domestic spending and Reagan slashed domestic spending.

I also find this confusing....

Quote:
The cost of this emphasis on economic growth has been an attitude toward public finance that is far less risk averse than is the case among more traditional conservatives. Neocons would prefer not to have large budget deficits, but it is in the nature of democracy--because it seems to be in the nature of human nature--that political demagogy will frequently result in economic recklessness, so that one sometimes must shoulder budgetary deficits as the cost (temporary, one hopes) of pursuing economic growth. It is a basic assumption of neoconservatism that, as a consequence of the spread of affluence among all classes, a property-owning and tax-paying population will, in time, become less vulnerable to egalitarian illusions and demagogic appeals and more sensible about the fundamentals of economic reckoning.
Who is more responsible for our growing national debt, the Republicans or the Democrats? Isn't borrow and spend much worse for our nation than tax and spend? Democrats want to pay as they go, while Republicans are pushing their spending into the future and then blaming the debt on Democrats. That sucks.

Roosevelt was attacked for being socialistic and this makes him very different from Reagan.

Quote:
Roosevelt's Critics [ushistory.org]
Roosevelt's Critics [ushistory.org]
FDR was a President, not a king. His goals were ambitious and extensive, and while he had many supporters, his enemies were legion. Liberals and radicals attacked from the left for not providing enough relief and for maintaining the fundamental aspects of capitalism. Conservatives claimed his policies were socialism in ...
Is it a good idea to deregulate banks and increase our national debt? Sure risky banking can result in economic stimulation and it can also result in crashing world economies. There are reasons for regulations and I think they are justified. That is the job of government, to keep the playing field open and to keep us safe. I don't like government that is like a football game stimulating testosterone but not the brain.

Last edited by Athena; February 12th, 2018 at 09:00 AM.
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Old February 12th, 2018, 09:36 AM   #70
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If we take a look at the first attacking paragraph concerning bombing, what immediately stands out of it for me is Trump's willingness to fight a war with the concept of...OMG...actually winning that war. Obimbo...not so much.
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