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Old November 18th, 2011, 09:13 AM   #1
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Definition for progressivism:

Web definitions: the political orientation of those who favor progress toward better conditions in government and society.

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn



I don't understand what this actually means. I don't think that the term is exclusive to any certian affiliation, is that true? Don't we all want better conditions?
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Old November 18th, 2011, 12:29 PM   #2
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Wiki says this:



Quote:
Progressivism is an umbrella term for a political ideology advocating or favoring social, political, and economic reform or changes. Progressivism is often viewed by some conservatives,constitutionalists, and libertarians to be in opposition to conservative or reactionary ideologies.



The Progressive Movement began in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in cities with settlement workers and reformers who were interested in helping those facing harsh conditions at home and at work. The reformers spoke out about the need for laws regulating tenement housing and child labor. They also called for better working conditions for women.



The term progressivism emerged in reference to a more general response to the vast changes brought by industrialization: an alternative to the traditional conservative response to social and economic issues and, despite being associated with left-wing politics, to the various more radical streams of communism or anarchism.



Political parties, such as the Progressive Party, organized at the start of the 20th century, and progressivism made great strides under American presidents Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson,Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and Lyndon Baines Johnson.[sup][1][/sup] Moreover, in the United States and Canada, the term "progressive" has occasionally been used by groups not particularly left-wing. TheProgressive Democrats in the Republic of Ireland took the name "progressivism" despite being considered centre-right or classical liberal. The European Progressive Democrats was a mainly heterogeneous political group in the European Union. For most of the period from 19422003, the largest conservative party in Canada was the Progressive Conservative Party.


Today, progressives favor higher taxation on the rich, protective tariffs, spending our way out of the recession, relative ease with high federal deficits, curbing corporate influence, the healthcare act ... I'm sure DTT progressives can add to this list.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 12:50 PM   #3
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Thank you for the insight.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 02:48 PM   #4
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Nah, a lot of conservatives don't like social progress all that much.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 03:41 PM   #5
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Thanks, Fayt. I am just beginning to understand that my knowledge of political termanology is truly lacking. I try to keep up and find that I get lost trying to define the terms as used in articles. I have found that more often than not, the actual term- as defined in a dictionary- is not the term the author intended.



I really am trying to put an identifying name to what I am. I really try to vote by way of their platform and what they say and do (or have said and done).



Side note: I love your hair color and cut.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 07:41 PM   #6
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Thanks, Fayt. I am just beginning to understand that my knowledge of political termanology is truly lacking. I try to keep up and find that I get lost trying to define the terms as used in articles. I have found that more often than not, the actual term- as defined in a dictionary- is not the term the author intended.



I really am trying to put an identifying name to what I am. I really try to vote by way of their platform and what they say and do (or have said and done).



Side note: I love your hair color and cut.


Fayt has trouble, as do a lot of people, distinguishing between conservatism, the nearest analog to the classical liberalism of our Founders' day, and neoconservatism. All of the GOP candidates trumpeting their conservatism - Perry, Bachman, Santorum, Cain, Gingrich, and even Romney - are bona fide neoconservatives.



Here's a really good, concise primer on neoconservatism: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...3/000tzmlw.asp
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Old November 18th, 2011, 07:59 PM   #7
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Here's a really good, concise primer on neoconservatism: http://www.weeklysta...03/000tzmlw.asp


I appreciated the link, however I need something a little more elementary.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by imaginethat' timestamp='1321677697' post='369421

Here's a really good, concise primer on neoconservatism: http://www.weeklysta...03/000tzmlw.asp


I appreciated the link, however I need something a little more elementary.


OK.



This is about as simple as it can be, and it connects the neoconservative persuasion with recent events.



Quote:
A neoconservative (also spelled "neo-conservative"; colloquially, neocon) in American politics is someone presented as a conservative but who actually favors big government, interventionalism, and a hostility to religion in politics and government. The word means "newly conservative," and thus formerly liberal. Many neocons had been liberals in their youth and admired President Franklin D. Roosevelt. In 2010 the highest priority of the neoconservatives is to increase military action by the United States in the Middle East and Afghanistan, and to expand it to an American confrontation against Iran; in 2011 their goals include supporting a military attack onLibya, continuing the Afghanistan War indefinitely, and even suggesting military action against Syria.



Neoconservatives tend to oppose the appointment of social conservatives to high governmental positions, such as nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court. Neoconservatives support candidates who are liberal on social issues instead.



The defining position of a neoconservative is advocacy of an American foreign policy that seeks to install democracy in other nations. That reflects both their emphasis on foreign policy and their downplaying the significance of the differences in cultures and religion around the globe. The neoconservative position was discredited in the failure of democracy in the Iranian elections of 2009.



The neoconservative movement emerged in the mid 1970s, played a limited role in the Ronald Reagan Administration, and then had a voice in the Defense Department under the George W. Bush Administration after 9/11. Candidates favored by neoconservatives for president in 2012 include Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, Mike Pence and, to a lesser extent because she pulls support away those candidates, Sarah Palin.

Some prominent spokesmen include Bill Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Lewis Libby, Norman Podhoretz, Daniel Pipes, Charles Krauthammer, Richard Perle, Robert Kagan, Christopher Hitchens, Stephen Schwartz, Elliott Abrams, Ben Wattenberg and Carl Gershman.



In contrast to traditional conservatives, neoconservatives favor globalism, downplay religious issues and differences, are unlikely to actively oppose abortion and homosexuality. Neocons disagree with conservatives on issues such as classroom prayer, the separation of powers, cultural unity, and immigration. Neocons favor a strong active state in world affairs. Neocons oppose affirmative action with greater emphasis and priority than other conservatives do.



On foreign policy, neoconservatives believe that democracy can and should be installed by the United States around the world, even in Muslim countries such as Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.



Neoconservatives were prominent in the George W. Bush administration by supporting a strong foreign policy, and especially favored the Iraq War and its efforts to spread democracy worldwide.


http://conservapedia...Neoconservatism



I'll work with ya on this Mom. Ask another question when you have one.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 08:43 PM   #9
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Thanks, I appreciate it. This is a whole different perspective then what I thought it meant. I did check wiki and search a little. The site came up that you listed but my WOT came up yellow so I did not click it. Again, thanks.
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Old November 18th, 2011, 09:25 PM   #10
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Thanks, I appreciate it. This is a whole different perspective then what I thought it meant. I did check wiki and search a little. The site came up that you listed but my WOT came up yellow so I did not click it. Again, thanks.


Sure.



What would you say if I said progressivism is a form of neoconservatism?
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Old November 18th, 2011, 10:07 PM   #11
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I can see how you say that.



The whole wording seems to be a trap depending upon how you view progress and better conditions. I do not think going into other countries and helping them attain democracy is providing America with progress and better conditions. I may be naive in the scheme of things but I mainly think locally and nationally. Maybe as a world leader (USA) we cannot think that way.



At my core, I suppose I am not as charitable as I feel like I am, if that makes sense. I do care about what happens in other countries but know that we need more attention here at home. I feel like we are in a plane crash situation, you know put your own oxygen mask on first before helping anyone else.



I view progress and better conditions for America as..... better schools and education, more inovation and building, making, doing, fixing, growing...less waste and gluteny. More citizen participation, and overall engagement in life, less talkers more doers, you know~teach a man to fish..... That is what I essentially wanted Progressivism to mean.
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Old November 19th, 2011, 07:42 AM   #12
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I can see how you say that.



The whole wording seems to be a trap depending upon how you view progress and better conditions. I do not think going into other countries and helping them attain democracy is providing America with progress and better conditions. I may be naive in the scheme of things but I mainly think locally and nationally. Maybe as a world leader (USA) we cannot think that way.



At my core, I suppose I am not as charitable as I feel like I am, if that makes sense. I do care about what happens in other countries but know that we need more attention here at home. I feel like we are in a plane crash situation, you know put your own oxygen mask on first before helping anyone else.



I view progress and better conditions for America as..... better schools and education, more inovation and building, making, doing, fixing, growing...less waste and gluteny. More citizen participation, and overall engagement in life, less talkers more doers, you know~teach a man to fish..... That is what I essentially wanted Progressivism to mean.


I think that's a fair, non-partisan view of progressivism. The sayings, "Charity begins at home," or, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself" aren't merely nice sayings. They refer to the fact that if a person or a family or a nation doesn't tend to its own needs, the idea of helping anyone else is just an excuse, though outwardly noble, for NOT taking care of oneself, one's family, or one's nation.



Back to the similarities between neoconservatism and the partisan version of progressivism, some might object pointing out that neoconservatism has a religious element. That's not true. Neoconservatism includes those who have religious ideals, recruits 'em even, but like progressivism, at its core the values are humanistic. However, regarding the economy, neoconservative and progressive ideologies match up well. To wit:



Quote:
Neocons would prefer not to have large budget deficits, but it is in the nature of democracy--because it seems to be in the nature of human nature--that political demagogy will frequently result in economic recklessness, so that one sometimes must shoulder budgetary deficits as the cost (temporary, one hopes) of pursuing economic growth.


And, regarding government:



Quote:
Neocons do not like the concentration of services in the welfare state and are happy to study alternative ways of delivering these services. But they are impatient with the Hayekian notion that we are on "the road to serfdom." Neocons do not feel that kind of alarm or anxiety about the growth of the state in the past century, seeing it as natural, indeed inevitable. Because they tend to be more interested in history than economics or sociology, they know that the 19th-century idea, so neatly propounded by Herbert Spencer in his "The Man Versus the State," was a historical eccentricity. People have always preferred strong government to weak government, although they certainly have no liking for anything that smacks of overly intrusive government. Neocons feel at home in today's America to a degree that more traditional conservatives do not.


Neocons can be found in both parties, but their recent focus:



Quote:
...to convert the Republican party, and American conservatism in general, against their respective wills, into a new kind of conservative politics suitable to governing a modern democracy.


In that, their success was complete with the election of GW Bush. So successful were they, that many, perhaps most, conservatives didn't notice, and supported Bush's neoconservative regime. That the candidates in the GOP primary process today, excepting Huntsman and Paul, all are neocons, demonstrates this sad fact.
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Old November 19th, 2011, 10:58 AM   #13
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Progressive is one of those words that has been hijacked to create the illusion that every aspect of the left wing agenda is an improvement and a step forward.



Nice try.



Other words that have been hijacked to soften an image include



undocumented (illegal)



gay (homosexual)



pro-choice (pro-abortion)



patriotic (pro-war)



unAmerican (opposing war)



socialised medecine (MediCare)



class warfare (taxing the rich)



and there are many others
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Old November 19th, 2011, 11:00 AM   #14
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Side note: I love your hair color and cut.


and those bewitching pixie ears!
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Old November 19th, 2011, 12:43 PM   #15
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Gary~ I do not agree with all the words you have listd but I do agree that there are some clever wordsmiths.



Quote:
Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
Back to the similarities between neoconservatism and the partisan version of progressivism, some might object pointing out that neoconservatism has a religious element. That's not true. Neoconservatism includes those who have religious ideals, recruits 'em even, but like progressivism, at its core the values are humanistic. However, regarding the economy, neoconservative and progressive ideologies match up well.


Can you expand on this statement as it relates to religion? (If you don't mind)
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Old November 19th, 2011, 04:01 PM   #16
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Thanks, Fayt. I am just beginning to understand that my knowledge of political termanology is truly lacking. I try to keep up and find that I get lost trying to define the terms as used in articles. I have found that more often than not, the actual term- as defined in a dictionary- is not the term the author intended.



I really am trying to put an identifying name to what I am. I really try to vote by way of their platform and what they say and do (or have said and done).



Side note: I love your hair color and cut.


Thanks Mom! It's a wig, I'm actually blond. Anyway please don't listen to imaginethat, he have issues. I call my self a progressive, liberal democrat. It's probably best not to get an libertarian opinion on this issue, that is imaginethat. This is not to beat up on imaginethat but he often try to equate progressive with conservatives because of partisan or whatever. Your definition in your first post is spot on. Progressive are those who favor progress toward better conditions in government and society.



One of the only reasons why I'm call myself a progressive is because all the progress that workers have made from the Great Depression to about the 1970s. These progressions happened mostly because of democratic legislation. The Minimum wage laws, child labor laws, work place safety laws, social security, unemployment benefits, 6 day week, then the 5 day week international highway system, G.I. Bill, 40 hour work week, right for employee to collectively bargain, overtime pay, environmental laws, peace core, civil rights movement, fought Nazism, women rights to vote, public education, national weather service program, product labeling, truth in advertising laws, public health laws, clean water and air, infrastructure and etc. That's why I'm a democrat for the most part because I care about working people.



What most conservatives want to do is to take us back to the 1920s and late 1800s. They pretty much want to take us back before Social Security, before minimum wage laws, before child labor laws, before the 40 hour work week, before the right to unionize, before work place safety rules, before food safety rules, before the concept that the government is the employer of last resort, before the right of public education and etc. They want to take us back to the Gilded Age again where the Robber Barons are running the show.
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Old November 19th, 2011, 04:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom' timestamp='1321663285' post='369409

Side note: I love your hair color and cut.


and those bewitching pixie ears!


Imaginethat can learn a thing or two from you about how to make a girl happy.
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Old November 19th, 2011, 05:21 PM   #18
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What most conservatives want to do is to take us back to the 1920s and late 1800s. They pretty much want to take us back before Social Security, before minimum wage laws, before child labor laws, before the 40 hour work week, before the right to unionize, before work place safety rules, before food safety rules, before the concept that the government is the employer of last resort, before the right of public education and etc. They want to take us back to the Gilded Age again where the Robber Barons are running the show.


I definately don't want that.



Some things you mentioned (in my opinion) needs tweaking but could you imagine life without them? Companies would pay us $.02 as an hourly rate and ask why we can't afford health care.
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Old November 19th, 2011, 06:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
What most conservatives want to do is to take us back to the 1920s and late 1800s. They pretty much want to take us back before Social Security, before minimum wage laws, before child labor laws, before the 40 hour work week, before the right to unionize, before work place safety rules, before food safety rules, before the concept that the government is the employer of last resort, before the right of public education and etc. They want to take us back to the Gilded Age again where the Robber Barons are running the show.


I definately don't want that.



Some things you mentioned (in my opinion) needs tweaking but could you imagine life without them? Companies would pay us $.02 as an hourly rate and ask why we can't afford health care.


I don't know what needs tweaking but yup, I can't imagine that mom.
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Old November 19th, 2011, 06:37 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Mom' timestamp='1321755700' post='369512

Quote:
What most conservatives want to do is to take us back to the 1920s and late 1800s. They pretty much want to take us back before Social Security, before minimum wage laws, before child labor laws, before the 40 hour work week, before the right to unionize, before work place safety rules, before food safety rules, before the concept that the government is the employer of last resort, before the right of public education and etc. They want to take us back to the Gilded Age again where the Robber Barons are running the show.


I definately don't want that.



Some things you mentioned (in my opinion) needs tweaking but could you imagine life without them? Companies would pay us $.02 as an hourly rate and ask why we can't afford health care.


I don't know what needs tweaking but yup, I can't imagine that mom.


I think the minimum wage and food safety laws need tweaking. I don't think minimum wage is a fair living wage and I do not like the way GMO food is handled- I do not think it is safe. And there are a couple of other items with food but I certianly would not want the food saftey or minimum wage laws repealled that is why I said tweaked.
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