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Old January 29th, 2017, 09:40 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Should it be surprising that young men have an easier time escaping from free-fire zones and traveling hundreds of miles overland and on boats than old people and women with children? What was the excuse offered by all the border knobs harassing and attacking children who were sent by their families in Honduras? Recall that Honduras was the Obama Admin's first regime change attempt...to get an uncooperative elected government out for a corporate and IMF-friendly version. But the right has no interest in attacking US colonialism abroad, just denigrating any of those who try to escape the mess America creates in their homelands!

They're looking for excuses to reject refugees from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq, who are mostly trying to escape US/NATO wars of aggression, and get to Europe because it's closer than trying to get to North America!

*I want to add that, regarding the "contributing nothing" story that's spread around by Fortress America and other rightwingers, that most western nations have aging populations, and most of the new immigration is filling in the blanks of bad demographics here in Canada. Even if a goal is set to reduce population growth (which I hope is restarted after 40 year absence)a nation of retirees will soon find itself with no one to do the work to maintain society...let alone take care of them when too old to look after themselves!

First off i am against war in general and am completely against what the US has going on in the ME and would prefer if we closed all of our international bases. I think we should bring ALL of out Troups home.

Second I am 100% for immigration. What I am against is bringing unskilled people here and supporting them every step of the way. And to this meme that we need to import "refugees" to fill in the holes being left by the dying baby boomer generation. That is complete bullshit. They are for the most part a drain on our economy not adding to it. Furthermore if it was out of compassion why wouldn't we just spend less money and help them build up their shit hole of a nation instead of bringing them here so they can import their archaic traditions and try to make a new shit hole sections out of our cities.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 10:57 PM   #42
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I don't know what it's like there but if these new "refugees" assimilated that the refugees in the past did there would be much less issue. Also the majority are working/fighting age men and not women/children or families in the traditional western sence of the world.

They create mirror communities w/in ours and suck up resorces such as welfare programs and health care contributing little to nothing back. This is where I see the problem.
Every immigrant community that's in a hostile wider community will create "mirror communities" and remain as separate as possible from the larger community.

As for being a drain on welfare and health care...I can't help thinking that...if this is true, then they're managing to do it better than many Americans who end up on welfare and soon after end up homeless...as welfare in most US cities doesn't provide enough money to pay rent...at a time when public housing has been virtually abolished. If you got numbers, let's see them! Cause I was able to find this report from the Social Security Administration estimating net benefits and losses due to "unauthorized" immigrants:
Conclusion

While unauthorized immigrants worked and contributed as much as $13 billion in payroll taxes to the OASDI program in 2010, only about $1 billion in benefit payments during 2010 are attributable to unauthorized work. Thus, we estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010. We estimate that future years will experience a continuation of this positive impact on the trust funds.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf

*if Cato still serves as any voice of authority within libertarian circles these days, I was surprised to find this pro-immigration article on their site:
https://www.cato.org/publications/co...nfluence-world

Last edited by right to left; January 29th, 2017 at 10:59 PM.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 11:10 PM   #43
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First off i am against war in general and am completely against what the US has going on in the ME and would prefer if we closed all of our international bases. I think we should bring ALL of out Troups home.

Second I am 100% for immigration. What I am against is bringing unskilled people here and supporting them every step of the way. And to this meme that we need to import "refugees" to fill in the holes being left by the dying baby boomer generation. That is complete bullshit. They are for the most part a drain on our economy not adding to it. Furthermore if it was out of compassion why wouldn't we just spend less money and help them build up their shit hole of a nation instead of bringing them here so they can import their archaic traditions and try to make a new shit hole sections out of our cities.
Great that you don't like US&Allied foreign policy that generates refugee migrations to start with, but what about the consequences? Why should the people forced to flee their homelands be stuck in some no-man's land or drowning at sea? Unless or until you can remove imperialist government that causes these crises, it becomes the moral responsibility of the people who live within the nation's boundaries...regardless of whether they like the wars or not!

Afghanistan in particular, has become more unlivable through USAID than if they received nothing at all. Same with Iraq...the rebuilding contracts enriched Cheney and directors at Haliburton and other oil services companies plus many others looking for a handout. The better solution would have been to tell the Iraqi Baath Party leadership we'll end the sanctions if you get rid of Saddam, and the war and the baggage that came with it would have never needed to happen...including their portion of the refugee migrations.

*fwiw Europe...even Germany's taking in refugees pales in comparison to what nations in the region have had to do to try to accommodate a steady flow of refugees across their borders in Jordan and Lebanon in particular...where Syrian and Iraqi refugees make up a major portion of the general population now.
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Old January 30th, 2017, 04:53 AM   #44
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or this?

what sane american would???
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Old January 30th, 2017, 04:54 AM   #45
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mr. Google tells me that canada has accepted 25,000 syrian refugees and the us has accepted 85,000.

On top of that canada has an overall muslim population that is 3.2% of the total while in the us that figure is 1%.

there has been no terrorist activities or gang rapes carried out by immigrant muslims in canada.

maybe there are other factors?
yet!
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Old January 30th, 2017, 05:00 AM   #46
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Stop being racist. They are just sharing their culture.
i worked with a very sweet hard working muslim nurse who was in the break room one day with me and a few other ladies. she told us the story of how her genitals were mutilated as a child (she had the extreme form) and of how agonizingly painful her wedding night was and how much sex hurt everytime her husband wanted it. it was then i think i started hating their "culture". what kind of "culture" does that to little girls in this day and age??? there wasn't a dry eye in the room by the time she finished her story. but her husband was assured he got a virgin!
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Old January 30th, 2017, 11:32 AM   #47
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Apparently you didn't get the memo. All of those US bound passengers with valid visas must now be allowed in by order of a federal court just a short time ago. If the ones in Canada want to use a bus as a mode of transportation to cross the Canadian border into the US they certainly can and will. With no obstruction by any executive orders. You'll probably be seeing them on the roads all weekend.
You really have no idea of what your talking about.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 10:08 AM   #48
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Good for Canada! When Trump finishes the Mexico Wall he will start building the Canada Wall.
It's already started. We're building it and we don't even expect you to pay for it.



















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Old February 5th, 2017, 12:29 PM   #49
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I wonder how long the Canadian citizens will put up with that crap.
We're fine with it.
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Old February 5th, 2017, 01:05 PM   #50
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Every immigrant community that's in a hostile wider community will create "mirror communities" and remain as separate as possible from the larger community.

As for being a drain on welfare and health care...I can't help thinking that...if this is true, then they're managing to do it better than many Americans who end up on welfare and soon after end up homeless...as welfare in most US cities doesn't provide enough money to pay rent...at a time when public housing has been virtually abolished. If you got numbers, let's see them! Cause I was able to find this report from the Social Security Administration estimating net benefits and losses due to "unauthorized" immigrants:
Conclusion

While unauthorized immigrants worked and contributed as much as $13 billion in payroll taxes to the OASDI program in 2010, only about $1 billion in benefit payments during 2010 are attributable to unauthorized work. Thus, we estimate that earnings by unauthorized immigrants result in a net positive effect on Social Security financial status generally, and that this effect contributed roughly $12 billion to the cash flow of the program for 2010. We estimate that future years will experience a continuation of this positive impact on the trust funds.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf

*if Cato still serves as any voice of authority within libertarian circles these days, I was surprised to find this pro-immigration article on their site:
https://www.cato.org/publications/co...nfluence-world
Don't you find it a bit disingenuous to talk about healthcare and welfare and then quote social security?

Of course undocumented workers would have a positive impact on social security when they are required to pay in but unable to collect.

I am talking about public schools, healthcare, welfare, housing, SNAPP and the likes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Great that you don't like US&Allied foreign policy that generates refugee migrations to start with, but what about the consequences? Why should the people forced to flee their homelands be stuck in some no-man's land or drowning at sea? Unless or until you can remove imperialist government that causes these crises, it becomes the moral responsibility of the people who live within the nation's boundaries...regardless of whether they like the wars or not!

Afghanistan in particular, has become more unlivable through USAID than if they received nothing at all. Same with Iraq...the rebuilding contracts enriched Cheney and directors at Haliburton and other oil services companies plus many others looking for a handout. The better solution would have been to tell the Iraqi Baath Party leadership we'll end the sanctions if you get rid of Saddam, and the war and the baggage that came with it would have never needed to happen...including their portion of the refugee migrations.

*fwiw Europe...even Germany's taking in refugees pales in comparison to what nations in the region have had to do to try to accommodate a steady flow of refugees across their borders in Jordan and Lebanon in particular...where Syrian and Iraqi refugees make up a major portion of the general population now.

If the public voted on wars then maybe the people could be asked to feel some sort of responsibility to the people who are suffering because of them when the reality is I would guess that the people of given the chance would pull the funding to the wars and pull out like a prom date.

I do not want our people over there and I do not want to pay for their people to be here. If they can get here on their own dime, find a place to live and a way to support themselves then IMO they are more than welcome. If they cannot then they should stay where they are or migrate someplace where they can do those things.

Maybe, just maybe when we have fixed the majority of our economical problems at home and have gotten our national debt under control then we can concern ourselves w/ the economical issues in other nations.
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