Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Political Ideologies > Progressivism

Progressivism Progressivism Forum - Political Philosophy Forum


Thanks Tree85Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 16th, 2017, 03:30 AM   #91
Senior Member
 
iolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rhondda
Posts: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
The job belongs to the employer. Many people seem to forget that. When the employer makes an applicant a job offer they are free to negotiate or turn it down. Some people may believe that their labor is worth $20 per hour but if all an employer is willing to pay them is $10 per hour, then that is what their labor is worth.

The idea is that you start at a starting wage, then earn raises and promotions. The left seems to want to just start everyone at a living wage that takes care of all their needs. That isn't our system.
No - the wages stolen belong to the employer, because he fixes the law. Collectively they control the state, and force people to join in their grotesque con trick, as well you know. Chuck the thieves out and let's get on with our lives like sensible people. If you don't know what we need to live, think: it does not include working four times longer than we need to buy stuff we don't really want.

Last edited by iolo; May 17th, 2017 at 03:42 AM.
iolo is offline  
Old May 16th, 2017, 03:59 AM   #92
Senior Member
 
Twisted Sister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Brown Township, Ohio
Posts: 10,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by iolo View Post
No - the wages stolen belong to the employer, because he fixes the law. Collectively they control the state, and force people to join in their grotesque con trick, as well you know. Chuck the thieves out and let's get on with our lives like sensible people. If you don't know waht we need to live, think: it does not include working four times longer than we need to buy stuff we don't really want.
I am a sensible person and back when I was a contractor paid much higher than minimum wage to the grunts. Sit down on the job when I am out of the room, my other grunts told me about it and I paid off the slacker on the spot and said we don't need you. I have always used the carrot and stick approach and do a good job you get a raise and the company meeting will be held in the strip club on Friday, free beer and free eats.
Twisted Sister is offline  
Old May 16th, 2017, 04:16 AM   #93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: upnorth
Posts: 1,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
It's conversations or discussions like ours that surprise me with a reality check. You and I must live in very different worlds. About the only thing we have in common is that education comes first.
Here's my world. 1) College--degree in education 2) Graduate school--more education 3) First job--teaching 4) Training every year I taught in every possible thing you can think of from technology to standardized testing to curriculum to special needs students....provided by the school district.
Mr. Clara's world 1)College--degree in Chemistry/Business 2) First job for a paint manufacturing company 3) Sent to training all over the country so he could manage the business/sales/accounting, etc. Stayed with them for 30 yrs. Moved up the ladder.
Clara's oldest son 1) College--degree in accounting/business 2)First job Inventory Control specialist--training in products, budgets, inventory, warehouse facilities. 3) Second job--safety and fire inspector--training in state certifications, construction codes, laws, testifying, etc.
Clara's youngest son 1) College--degree in business/Spanish 2) First job--Medical interpreter--trained by hospitals and clinics to assist patients where English is a second language 3) Second job--Peace Corp--trained to build water systems/aquaducts 4) Third job--started his own business in construction, flipping houses and home inspections (He used the training from previous jobs and paid for additional training himself.)

Sorry--too much information, but I just wanted you to understand that MANY MANY businesses TRAIN their own employees so they have the BEST employees or teachers or accountants or managers. I think it pays off. Sorry you didn't have that kind of experience. Hope you've been successful.
What you learned in those indoctrination camps is quite different from what I learned at Hard Knox University. The school of hard knocks teaches us much more about the darker side of human nature.
My father was a career Federal employee and Marxist, so I have been exposed to that perspective and found little to respect about it. There is far less accountability when the wages don't come directly out of some individual's pocket.

I have nothing against employers training their employees. Sometimes it does pay off, sometimes it doesn't. Who knows better than the employer himself? The decision should be his and his alone. He should not be forced or coerced to invest in anything he feels does not have sufficient return. If he is forced to spend thousands training employees just because Clara thinks it will pay off and doesn't get enough return on it, he will either subtract it from his profit (usually ending up in bankruptcy and hence the product will be made in China thereafter), or he will raise the price of his product.

Employees are grown ups and should be treated as such. Employers are not their parents and should not be forced to treat their employees like babies.
Thanks from Sabcat and Twisted Sister
Pilgrim is offline  
Old May 16th, 2017, 04:26 AM   #94
Senior Member
 
Twisted Sister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Brown Township, Ohio
Posts: 10,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
What you learned in those indoctrination camps is quite different from what I learned at Hard Knox University. The school of hard knocks teaches us much more about the darker side of human nature.
My father was a career Federal employee and Marxist, so I have been exposed to that perspective and found little to respect about it. There is far less accountability when the wages don't come directly out of some individual's pocket.

I have nothing against employers training their employees. Sometimes it does pay off, sometimes it doesn't. Who knows better than the employer himself? The decision should be his and his alone. He should not be forced or coerced to invest in anything he feels does not have sufficient return. If he is forced to spend thousands training employees just because Clara thinks it will pay off and doesn't get enough return on it, he will either subtract it from his profit (usually ending up in bankruptcy and hence the product will be made in China thereafter), or he will raise the price of his product.

Employees are grown ups and should be treated as such. Employers are not their parents and should not be forced to treat their employees like babies.
However, employers give preferential treatment to employees who have talent even when they take an unscheduled day off.
Thanks from Pilgrim
Twisted Sister is offline  
Old May 16th, 2017, 06:02 AM   #95
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by iolo View Post
The nature of property is to remove freedom from all who co-exist with it, always and everywhere. Those who believe in it spend their lives like a combination of bandits and prison guards, making life loathsome for others and hardly daring themselves to sleep or shit except in their trousers.
This may be simplistic but you just advocated removing the freedom to own property so one might have more freedom.
username is offline  
Old May 16th, 2017, 11:38 AM   #96
forgot my old user name
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
I see this phrase tossed around often by our leftist friends but what does it really mean?

What IS "fair pay"?
A wage that can meet the basic necessities of life..pure and simple!
Back in 1975..after I first left home, I was working in a restaurant,making 10c an hour over minimum wage of the time. I was able to pay my half of the rent on a two bedroom apartment with a friend..and when he left, it was a little more expensive..but I could still afford my own small 3 room apartment+food and clothing and basic necessities...even a little drinking money for the weekend. How many cities can you do that today on minimum wage?
Thanks from imaginethat
right to left is offline  
Old May 16th, 2017, 11:42 AM   #97
forgot my old user name
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by username View Post
This may be simplistic but you just advocated removing the freedom to own property so one might have more freedom.
Property rights were originally enshrined to protect the ownership rights of human capital(slavery). It's one thing to own your little plot of land, but do you have the right to own the surplus value of someone else's labour? I say no..especially since allowing capitalism to run amuk has this world sitting on the precipice of destruction!
right to left is offline  
Old May 16th, 2017, 12:27 PM   #98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: upnorth
Posts: 1,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
A wage that can meet the basic necessities of life..pure and simple!
Back in 1975..after I first left home, I was working in a restaurant,making 10c an hour over minimum wage of the time. I was able to pay my half of the rent on a two bedroom apartment with a friend..and when he left, it was a little more expensive..but I could still afford my own small 3 room apartment+food and clothing and basic necessities...even a little drinking money for the weekend. How many cities can you do that today on minimum wage?
The basic necessities of life are fewer than most people think. All I really need is a side of beef, a sleeping bag, a cave and a fire. A knife would be handy, but really I could just use my teeth and a sharp rock.

Most poor people don't have enough sense to eat red beans and rice, made from scratch, which costs pennies a serving. Most poor people are poor because they are lazy as hell or just don't have a lick of sense when it comes to managing what little money they have. It's not the employers fault. I worked a few jobs under 3 bucks an hour back in the seventies, but I managed and worked my way up.
Thanks from Sabcat
Pilgrim is offline  
Old May 16th, 2017, 01:07 PM   #99
Commie Exposer
 
Jimmyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 38,871
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Property rights were originally enshrined to protect the ownership rights of human capital(slavery). It's one thing to own your little plot of land, but do you have the right to own the surplus value of someone else's labour? I say no..especially since allowing capitalism to run amuk has this world sitting on the precipice of destruction!
Was the Magna Carta about slavery?
Jimmyb is offline  
Old May 16th, 2017, 02:00 PM   #100
Senior Member
 
Hollywood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Memphis, Tn.
Posts: 17,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyb View Post
Was the Magna Carta about slavery?
Anyone say it was?

Last edited by Hollywood; May 16th, 2017 at 03:51 PM. Reason: typo
Hollywood is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Political Ideologies > Progressivism

Tags
fair pay



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A new UN report "shatters the notion" that Assad is somehow "a lesser evil" than ISIS imaginethat Middle East 28 April 13th, 2016 05:59 AM
Conservative Group Blasts the Pope: "Paganism" Has "Entered the Church" LongWinded Current Events 8 September 29th, 2015 04:00 PM
Bruce Jenner on "Vanity Fair" Cover tristanrobin Current Events 141 June 14th, 2015 07:18 AM
warren buffett, "rich not paying their fair share" intangible child Current Events 46 October 4th, 2014 07:32 PM
Up-Coming Event: "Kid" Obama To WHUP "conservative"-Butt!!! Medicine Man Current Events 3 July 30th, 2014 10:23 PM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.