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Old April 25th, 2018, 04:52 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
You can try, but you tear jerker story shows the benefit of government run health care.
In the US, the kid would already be dead.
But not before the for-profit medical system let the parents bankrupt themselves.
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Old April 25th, 2018, 05:25 PM   #32
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All points considered, humankind has been avoiding some questions regarding cases like Alfie's.

Western medicine has developed procedures and pharmaceuticals for a variety of usually serious ailments that are ridiculously expensive. Iow, they can have no wide application because the system, whether socialized or privatized, could not fund a large number of people requiring these procedures or pharmaceuticals.

Take a heart transplant. We're talking a million bucks. Intestine transplant - $1.2 million. Then, greed raises its ugly head. Remember when the manufacturers of Daraprim, used by AIDS and transplant patients, raised the price from $13.50 per pill to $750.

Back to Alfie:
Barrister Rebecca Foulkes, who is representing Alfie's parents, told the judge: "Their priority is to make sure that everything that can be done for Alfie is done."
There it is: "...to make sure everything that can be done for Alfie is done."

Is this the metric?
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Old April 25th, 2018, 05:35 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
All points considered, humankind has been avoiding some questions regarding cases like Alfie's.

Western medicine has developed procedures and pharmaceuticals for a variety of usually serious ailments that are ridiculously expensive. Iow, they can have no wide application because the system, whether socialized or privatized, could not fund a large number of people requiring these procedures or pharmaceuticals.

Take a heart transplant. We're talking a million bucks. Intestine transplant - $1.2 million. Then, greed raises its ugly head. Remember when the manufacturers of Daraprim, used by AIDS and transplant patients, raised the price from $13.50 per pill to $750.

Back to Alfie:
Barrister Rebecca Foulkes, who is representing Alfie's parents, told the judge: "Their priority is to make sure that everything that can be done for Alfie is done."
There it is: "...to make sure everything that can be done for Alfie is done."

Is this the metric?
It is incredibly hard to apply a data based metric to such an emotional situation. Like it or not, probability has to be taken into account.

What are the odds of his condition being reversed? And I'm not talking cost at all in this discussion.

Do we know he isn't suffering right now? No.

Is this attempt at further treatment apt to increase potential suffering to no avail? Expert opinion says yes.

Is it sad to see a cute little guy like that lose? Yes.

Does furthering attempts at treatment help him or just his parents? IMO, just his parents. And that opinion is based on what I am reading from experts.
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Old April 25th, 2018, 05:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by imaginethat View Post
All points considered, humankind has been avoiding some questions regarding cases like Alfie's.

Western medicine has developed procedures and pharmaceuticals for a variety of usually serious ailments that are ridiculously expensive. Iow, they can have no wide application because the system, whether socialized or privatized, could not fund a large number of people requiring these procedures or pharmaceuticals.

Take a heart transplant. We're talking a million bucks. Intestine transplant - $1.2 million. Then, greed raises its ugly head. Remember when the manufacturers of Daraprim, used by AIDS and transplant patients, raised the price from $13.50 per pill to $750.

Back to Alfie:
Barrister Rebecca Foulkes, who is representing Alfie's parents, told the judge: "Their priority is to make sure that everything that can be done for Alfie is done."
There it is: "...to make sure everything that can be done for Alfie is done."

Is this the metric?
If it isn't the metric, it should be.

We should always attempt to do everything we can for someone unless the patient themselves, in a sound state of mind, indicates that they would prefer to pass on.
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Old April 25th, 2018, 06:13 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by KillTheCarnage View Post
By what right does any judge or court have to order the death of a child?

There is NO WAY to excuse this tyrannical over-reach!

This is what Death Panels look like!
OOOOOOHHHHH YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS The favorite spewage of the fright wing DEATH PANELS DEATH PANELS DEATH PANELS !!!! AS IF U.S. INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T SENTENCE U.S. CITIZENS TO DEATH EVERY FUCKING DAY !!!!!

You ARE AWARE that courts, right there in the good old USA, make these kind of decisions ALL THE TIME ???

It's just that after shooting themselves in the head multiple times over the Terry Shivo case, the preachers, the fright wing politicians and Faux News have stayed very very far away from anything similar. The fact that we don't hear about it on the news, doesn't mean these cases aren't heard in courts, probably more often than you think.
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Old April 25th, 2018, 06:21 PM   #36
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OOOOOOHHHHH YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS The favorite spewage of the fright wing DEATH PANELS DEATH PANELS DEATH PANELS !!!! AS IF U.S. INSURANCE COMPANIES DON'T SENTENCE U.S. CITIZENS TO DEATH EVERY FUCKING DAY !!!!!

You ARE AWARE that courts, right there in the good old USA, make these kind of decisions ALL THE TIME ???

It's just that after shooting themselves in the head multiple times over the Terry Shivo case, the preachers, the fright wing politicians and Faux News have stayed very very far away from anything similar. The fact that we don't hear about it on the news, doesn't mean these cases aren't heard in courts, probably more often than you think.
So, in your mind, it's okay for a judge to sentence a child to death because the insurance companies already get away with a similar crime?

WTF?
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Old April 25th, 2018, 06:26 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by KillTheCarnage View Post
So, in your mind, it's okay for a judge to sentence a child to death because the insurance companies already get away with a similar crime?

WTF?
Now there's pretzel logic if I ever saw it.
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Old April 25th, 2018, 07:17 PM   #38
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So, in your mind, it's okay for a judge to sentence a child to death because the insurance companies already get away with a similar crime?

WTF?
Well first Dilbert, go back and reread my post. Read slowly if you need to, we have time and you obviously have some sort of reading comprehension problem. SHOW me where I said I "approved" of their actions ?? Show me where I even hinted at approval.

I was merely pointing out, that in your zeal to show the UK's medical and legal system is as bad a light as possible, you've completely ignored the fact these types of scenarios play out here on a regular basis.

At least these parents had their day in court. Here with our wonderful for profit system, some nameless faceless bottom line driven bureaucrat sitting in a cubical decides YOU or your child are simply not eligible and that's it, you DIE. And you have little or no recourse.

What's truly hilarious, and more than a little IRONIC, is that you, in another post say your only income is your military retirement check. So I'm assuming you're either on Medicare or covered by the VA, BOTH OF WHOM ARE SOCIALIZED MEDICIAN !!!!!!!!!!!

You're complaining about the evils of socialized medicine while enjoying the benefits of the very kind of system you are claiming is evil.
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Last edited by BubbaJones; April 25th, 2018 at 07:22 PM.
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Old April 25th, 2018, 07:29 PM   #39
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Well first Dilbert, go back and reread my post. Read slowly if you need to, we have time and you obviously have some sort of reading comprehension problem. SHOW me where I said I "approved" of their actions ?? Show me where I even hinted at approval.

I was merely pointing out, that in your zeal to show the UK's medical and legal system is as bad a light as possible, you've completely ignored the fact these types of scenarios play out here on a regular basis.

At least these parents had their day in court. Here with our wonderful for profit system, some nameless faceless bottom line driven bureaucrat sitting in a cubical decides YOU or your child are simply not eligible and that's it, you DIE. And you have little or no recourse.
If you disapprove of people dying, then why are you arguing with me?

Answer this then, do you approve of the state having the power to sentence a child to death like the judge in this case did?
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Old April 25th, 2018, 07:55 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by goober View Post
You can try, but your tear jerker story shows the benefit of government run health care.
In the US, the kid would already be dead.
Please provide evidence of this statment


You have yet to answer the question
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