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Old June 4th, 2018, 04:02 PM   #61
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You've never seen a disabled person in a wheelchair, I take it? I knew a student at Oklahoma State named Ray Murphy who was paralyzed from the neck down (from a wrestling injury) and got around campus on a motorized wheelchair with those "puffer controls" they have for quadriplegics.

Now I ask you...what JOB could Ray have done to work his way through school? Taxi driving? Delivering Pizzas? Slinging fries at McDonalds? Unloading bricks down at the brick factory? Does the fact that a person can't work anymore mean they should just sit around and vegetate? Or MAYBE...he could better himself by getting an education and doing something constructive with his time?

You seem like a nice enough guy, but you need to drop the rightwing platitudes. They are usually narrow minded and self serving, like our President.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Murphy_Jr.

OK, where and how was this guy paying for college? And, are you suggesting this one example is the norm?
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Old June 4th, 2018, 04:04 PM   #62
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idk why you even bother Clara, these morons have no fucking clue.....
Why don't you "clue" us in? I'm up for reading some more bleeding heart crap!
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Old June 4th, 2018, 05:08 PM   #63
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OK, where and how was this guy paying for college? And, are you suggesting this one example is the norm?
There are tens of thousands of disabled people who can't work at all. Not all of them are wheelchairs.

Regarding Ray I believe he found a sponsor. Before his injury Ray was a highly successful All American wrestler who was a walkon to the team (late 1960's). I believe a wealthy alumnus came to the rescue after he became paralyzed. I didn't meet Ray until 1983, at which point he was working on a Master's Degree.
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Old June 4th, 2018, 08:27 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
You've never seen a disabled person in a wheelchair, I take it? I knew a student at Oklahoma State named Ray Murphy who was paralyzed from the neck down (from a wrestling injury) and got around campus on a motorized wheelchair with those "puffer controls" they have for quadriplegics.

Now I ask you...what JOB could Ray have done to work his way through school? Taxi driving? Delivering Pizzas? Slinging fries at McDonalds? Unloading bricks down at the brick factory? Does the fact that a person can't work anymore mean they should just sit around and vegetate? Or MAYBE...he could better himself by getting an education and doing something constructive with his time?

You seem like a nice enough guy, but you need to drop the rightwing platitudes. They are usually narrow minded and self serving, like our President.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Murphy_Jr.
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Originally Posted by GluteusMaximus View Post
There are tens of thousands of disabled people who can't work at all. Not all of them are wheelchairs.

Regarding Ray I believe he found a sponsor. Before his injury Ray was a highly successful All American wrestler who was a walkon to the team (late 1960's). I believe a wealthy alumnus came to the rescue after he became paralyzed. I didn't meet Ray until 1983, at which point he was working on a Master's Degree.

I'm not sure what matt or ray or whatever has to do w/ anything but let's run w/ it for a bit... what was this person studying and what did they end up doing w/ these degrees?
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Old June 5th, 2018, 09:50 AM   #65
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I'm not sure what matt or ray or whatever has to do w/ anything but let's run w/ it for a bit... what was this person studying and what did they end up doing w/ these degrees?
Why should it matter to you? When I was young, college wasn't expensive, but nor was it necessary to earn a decent middle class living, as long as you had good hand-eye coordination or as a last resort...put up with the mind-numbing drudgery of working on a factory production line.

A lot of kids who didn't feel the same need as I did-to leave home as early as possible, saved up a few dollars, got modest student loans and possibly wasted four years in college going to parties and coming out with a BA liberal arts degree. I would have considered this a waste of time, but some of the people I talked to who went into business or management careers...even politics... say that the diverse liberal arts education they got helped them in their careers later on in life, by showing them a lot of things they weren't even aware of when they left high school, as well as how to cut through the clutter and identify what is essential and not important when new issues and problems arise at work.

What a lot of educators and left theorists believe has happened since the neoliberal 80's began is that the governing forces which rule over us...be they in business or government like having creative, imaginative and resourceful candidates with that kind of liberal arts education BUT they don't like employees who can think for themselves and feel free to contradict their bosses! So, it seems both liberals and conservatives today see everything to do with higher education as connected with careers and career advancement!...which makes even Ivy League schools for the rich to be glorified trade schools...not to mention the state university systems! Universities are no longer the hub of new ideas, free thought and especially dissent! Otherwise, you wouldn't be asking 'what is the good of this guy getting an education? It would be recognized as a good and even a benefit to society at large that he is seeking to expand his horizons regardless of his physical constraints!

Last edited by right to left; June 5th, 2018 at 09:53 AM.
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Old June 5th, 2018, 10:17 AM   #66
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Get a Job pay for college.

many employers from

Wallmart, Chic fil A McDonalds National Guard offer financial Aid for their employees to go to college.
Thanks from Clara007
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Old June 5th, 2018, 10:26 AM   #67
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Why should it matter to you?
Because we are talking about someone who was "unable" to work thru college. Seems relevant to this strawman.
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Old June 5th, 2018, 10:45 AM   #68
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Young people are discovering all sorts of creative solutions to paying for college. The smart kids start at a community college, then transfer. They take part-time jobs, summer school, apply for grants and scholarships. There are LOTS of scholarships available if they are willing to do research. I belong to a women's organization that just handed out a $2500 scholarship to a high school senior girl. In addition some of us pitched in another $500 for books, etc.

High school students are now taking college credits in high school and SOME are going to vocational school WHILE they are in high school. There are ways to do this, but let me make a couple of other points.
There are really GOOD reasons to attend college, even if you don't use your college degree. College is NOT just about academics. It's about life skills like discipline, deadlines, obligations, taking charge of your OWN learning, asking questions, time management, communication skills, tenacity and multi-tasking. It's about setting goals and challenges. It's about social skills and social status. It's about where you see yourself in 10 years--20 years and it's about loftier areas--visual arts, music, literature, culture. It's about sports and teamwork....working with other people is KEY in our society and something every employer values.

College is about competition and understanding that you will need to survive and prosper in a GLOBAL community. YOUR resume will need to be BETTER than the other guy's.
Education is never a waste of money or time.
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Old June 5th, 2018, 11:18 AM   #69
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Because we are talking about someone who was "unable" to work thru college. Seems relevant to this strawman.
We're not talking about the same kind of work though are we? Some years back, when I would spend more time reading and talking about religion, I was active on the Belief.net forums. At the time, one of the most active and prolific contributors was a disabled man in his 30's (hate to say I forget exactly what the condition was that was crippling him and shortening his life) who was still working towards a doctorate in theology, and was very informative and instructive towards any member with honest questions or objections on any subject of religion and/or belief.

So, what does society gain by having someone (who I think had some kind of ALS syndrome) who is disabled gain an advanced education? And worth noting that in his case, he came from a family that had the resources to fully fund his education.

So, is working towards earning money for an education the same thing as doing the classroom work?
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Old June 5th, 2018, 11:27 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
Young people are discovering all sorts of creative solutions to paying for college. The smart kids start at a community college, then transfer. They take part-time jobs, summer school, apply for grants and scholarships. There are LOTS of scholarships available if they are willing to do research. I belong to a women's organization that just handed out a $2500 scholarship to a high school senior girl. In addition some of us pitched in another $500 for books, etc.

High school students are now taking college credits in high school and SOME are going to vocational school WHILE they are in high school. There are ways to do this, but let me make a couple of other points.
There are really GOOD reasons to attend college, even if you don't use your college degree. College is NOT just about academics. It's about life skills like discipline, deadlines, obligations, taking charge of your OWN learning, asking questions, time management, communication skills, tenacity and multi-tasking. It's about setting goals and challenges. It's about social skills and social status. It's about where you see yourself in 10 years--20 years and it's about loftier areas--visual arts, music, literature, culture. It's about sports and teamwork....working with other people is KEY in our society and something every employer values.

College is about competition and understanding that you will need to survive and prosper in a GLOBAL community. YOUR resume will need to be BETTER than the other guy's.
Education is never a waste of money or time.
Has anyone tried to track and explain the seemingly inverse relationship between the costs of higher education and the practical value of that education?

Seems to me that as universities are turned more and more into glorified trade schools churning out MBA's and such, the main value is to prove your pedigree...if you can afford Harvard or Yale you come from a "better" family than the plebes who scrape through to go to one of the state universities.

And why are costs of education rising and being allowed to rise so high? Aren't there any government departments tracking and regulating these costs? I've heard renegade economist- Richard D. Wolfe note many times when he was doing a Sunday public radio show that Yale still owns more land (awarded more than two centuries ago to pay for the costs of educating students) than any government or private institution in New Haven Conneticut, yet pays no property taxes to the City and even serves as a tax burden on a poor city with rising rates of poverty.
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