Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Political Ideologies > Progressivism

Progressivism Progressivism Forum - Political Philosophy Forum


Thanks Tree64Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 5th, 2018, 02:15 PM   #71
Senior Member
 
Clara007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
Has anyone tried to track and explain the seemingly inverse relationship between the costs of higher education and the practical value of that education?

Seems to me that as universities are turned more and more into glorified trade schools churning out MBA's and such, the main value is to prove your pedigree...if you can afford Harvard or Yale you come from a "better" family than the plebes who scrape through to go to one of the state universities.

And why are costs of education rising and being allowed to rise so high? Aren't there any government departments tracking and regulating these costs? I've heard renegade economist- Richard D. Wolfe note many times when he was doing a Sunday public radio show that Yale still owns more land (awarded more than two centuries ago to pay for the costs of educating students) than any government or private institution in New Haven Conneticut, yet pays no property taxes to the City and even serves as a tax burden on a poor city with rising rates of poverty.


There are many reasons for the rise in tuition. Here are a few:
*The law of supply and demand--more students than ever before want/need a college education.
*Colleges (like public schools) are hiring more administrators and staff, which includes security staff.
*Government subsidies have dried up.
*Researched-based faculty equals college prestige and higher salaries
*High tech labs, wired auditoriums, high priced textbooks, rock-climbing walls, cafeterias offering vegan, vegetarian, no-gluten, no dairy, no-no-no food.
*Work-out facilities
*Sports Arenas
*Advertising
*Price of Techonology-- computer-aided drafting software, powerful workstations to run advanced calculations, video conferencing suites for collaborating with international students and faculty

These are a few reasons the cost keeps rising...and I don't think colleges are going to start cutting back any time soon.
Clara007 is offline  
Old June 5th, 2018, 02:18 PM   #72
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 36,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
There are many reasons for the rise in tuition. Here are a few:
*The law of supply and demand--more students than ever before want/need a college education.
*Colleges (like public schools) are hiring more administrators and staff, which includes security staff.
*Government subsidies have dried up.
*Researched-based faculty equals college prestige and higher salaries
*High tech labs, wired auditoriums, high priced textbooks, rock-climbing walls, cafeterias offering vegan, vegetarian, no-gluten, no dairy, no-no-no food.
*Work-out facilities
*Sports Arenas
*Advertising
*Price of Techonology-- computer-aided drafting software, powerful workstations to run advanced calculations, video conferencing suites for collaborating with international students and faculty

These are a few reasons the cost keeps rising...and I don't think colleges are going to start cutting back any time soon.
The number one reason for the increase in the cost of tuition at colleges is that loans and access to cash for education is so easy to get. Society has convenced people they MUST have a college education.. Then the accept people that are not qualified for college offer them classes in "basket weaving for dummies" Liberal arts, classes then socially promote them through the classes and they graduate with a skill to earn a living or repay loans
Thanks from Sabcat
TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old June 5th, 2018, 02:24 PM   #73
Senior Member
 
tristanrobin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 23,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
Then the(y) accept people that are not qualified for college offer them classes in "basket weaving for dummies" Liberal arts, classes then socially promote them through the classes and they graduate with a skill to earn a living or repay loans
Um, no - once again (don't you get weary of this?) you're wrong.

Liberal arts is the oldest program of higher education in Western history. It has its origin in the attempt to discover first principles – 'those universal principles which are the condition of the possibility of the existence of anything and everything'. The liberal arts are those subjects or skills that in classical antiquity were considered essential for a free person (liberalis, "worthy of a free person") to know in order to take an active part in civic life, something that (for ancient Greece) included participating in public debate, defending oneself in court, serving on juries, and most importantly, military service. Grammar, logic, and rhetoric were the core liberal arts (the trivium), while arithmetic, geometry, the theory of music, and astronomy also played a – somewhat lesser – part in education (as the quadrivium).

Liberal arts today can refer to academic subjects such as literature, philosophy, mathematics, and social and physical sciences; and liberal arts education can refer to overall studies in a liberal arts degree program. For both interpretations, the term generally refers to matters not relating to the professional, vocational, or technical curriculum.

The availability of easy tuition loans and poor student quality in mid 20th century United States has nothing to do with the valuable liberal arts education.
Thanks from RNG and Clara007
tristanrobin is offline  
Old June 5th, 2018, 02:38 PM   #74
Senior Member
 
Clara007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 10,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
The number one reason for the increase in the cost of tuition at colleges is that loans and access to cash for education is so easy to get. Society has convenced people they MUST have a college education.. Then the accept people that are not qualified for college offer them classes in "basket weaving for dummies" Liberal arts, classes then socially promote them through the classes and they graduate with a skill to earn a living or repay loans


GAWD--Mr. Know-it-all strikes again. You have NO IDEA what a liberal arts education is--do you? AND here's a hint: There is NO basket weaving listed.

Aren't you the one whose daughters went to college? If so, were you paying attention to their classes? You know the ones--the English, Math, History, Sociology, languages, economics, poly sci?? THOSE required classes for every student in their first two years...?
I got to choose 1 elective each semester and carried 16-18 credits--graduated in 4 years with a teaching degree which served me well for 40 years.

You--on the other hand--told us that you graduated from college at the age of 17. I'm still wondering why you thought anyone would buy that?
Clara007 is offline  
Old June 5th, 2018, 02:41 PM   #75
RNG
Senior Member
 
RNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Between everywhere
Posts: 30,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
GAWD--Mr. Know-it-all strikes again. You have NO IDEA what a liberal arts education is--do you? AND here's a hint: There is NO basket weaving listed.

Aren't you the one whose daughters went to college? If so, were you paying attention to their classes? You know the ones--the English, Math, History, Sociology, languages, economics, poly sci?? THOSE required classes for every student in their first two years...?
I got to choose 1 elective each semester and carried 16-18 credits--graduated in 4 years with a teaching degree which served me well for 40 years.

You--on the other hand--told us that you graduated from college at the age of 17. I'm still wondering why you thought anyone would buy that?
Can't you tell he's a friggin' genius just from reading his posts? Just like the Republican President, and stable too.
Thanks from Clara007
RNG is offline  
Old June 6th, 2018, 10:10 AM   #76
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clara007 View Post
Young people are discovering all sorts of creative solutions to paying for college. The smart kids start at a community college, then transfer. They take part-time jobs, summer school, apply for grants and scholarships. There are LOTS of scholarships available if they are willing to do research. I belong to a women's organization that just handed out a $2500 scholarship to a high school senior girl. In addition some of us pitched in another $500 for books, etc.
Or, they can also go to foreign countries where university education is a fraction of the extortionist prices in the US, or even in Canada! That's what my stepson did after getting his BA...he had learned some German well enough to move to Germany and further his education, which even as a foreign student was cheaper than if he had continued at a Canadian university.

The wider issue of education tells us much about a nation's priorities! And since the US is turning the clock back to a time when only the children of the rich could get a good education, America won't have to worry about immigration problems anymore......more people will be leaving than coming in!
Thanks from Clara007
right to left is offline  
Old June 6th, 2018, 10:19 AM   #77
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
The number one reason for the increase in the cost of tuition at colleges is that loans and access to cash for education is so easy to get. Society has convenced people they MUST have a college education.. Then the accept people that are not qualified for college offer them classes in "basket weaving for dummies" Liberal arts, classes then socially promote them through the classes and they graduate with a skill to earn a living or repay loans
All we need is READIN, RIGHTING AND RITHMATIC.
Open up a search on rising university administrative costs*, if you want to know where the money is going. And don't forget the costs of bullshit like the football programs...where even assistant coaches at Big 10 colleges earn more than the most tenured, highest paid professors of any of their departments. That shows where the priorities are today...more bread and circuses!

The experts on this subject I've found all agree that free tuition should have been and remained the standard for higher education in America, since the state universities and even the original Ivy League universities were awarded large land grants to use for future costs of educating future generations of students.

What your founders didn't want was the English and French standard of the time that was near universal: education for the upper classes and not the working classes!

But in recent decades, America has traded places with Europe, and the extortionist costs of education is at least a top 5 reason why social and economic advancement in life is easier in Europe than it is in the USA.

*universities and colleges are hiring 'adjunct' professors at low pay as a part time workforce with no benefits and no job security, so that the administrators can collect the lion's share of the money. How do you expect to maintain a quality education system that way?
Thanks from Clara007
right to left is offline  
Old June 6th, 2018, 10:44 AM   #78
Senior Member
 
roastpork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
No
Only not being Trump matters
And isn't that stupid of them.
roastpork is offline  
Old June 6th, 2018, 10:56 AM   #79
I'm debt free
 
TNVolunteer73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 36,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by right to left View Post
All we need is READIN, RIGHTING AND RITHMATIC.
Open up a search on rising university administrative costs*, if you want to know where the money is going. And don't forget the costs of bullshit like the football programs...where even assistant coaches at Big 10 colleges earn more than the most tenured, highest paid professors of any of their departments. That shows where the priorities are today...more bread and circuses!

The experts on this subject I've found all agree that free tuition should have been and remained the standard for higher education in America, since the state universities and even the original Ivy League universities were awarded large land grants to use for future costs of educating future generations of students.

What your founders didn't want was the English and French standard of the time that was near universal: education for the upper classes and not the working classes!

But in recent decades, America has traded places with Europe, and the extortionist costs of education is at least a top 5 reason why social and economic advancement in life is easier in Europe than it is in the USA.

*universities and colleges are hiring 'adjunct' professors at low pay as a part time workforce with no benefits and no job security, so that the administrators can collect the lion's share of the money. How do you expect to maintain a quality education system that way?
I don't know the football program I follow makes enough money to fund Scholarships for Academics and Women's athletics. Also many of the Fans donate to many Academic Related scholarships.
TNVolunteer73 is offline  
Old June 6th, 2018, 11:18 AM   #80
end capitalism now
 
right to left's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
I don't know the football program I follow makes enough money to fund Scholarships for Academics and Women's athletics. Also many of the Fans donate to many Academic Related scholarships.
And as usual, the costs vs benefits of college football are much, much more complicated than you would like to believe. I came across this story last year, reported here in Bloomberg

College Football Teams Are Risky and Expensive—and Schools Keep Adding Them

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...ep-adding-them
Quote:
The business model of college football, long a financial boon to universities, is breaking down. A weeklong look at the pressures of rising costs, falling revenue and what, if anything, universities can do about it. Read the rest of the series here.

At many schools, the costs of football are starting to challenge the benefits. It’s expensive, it doesn’t always make money, many academic faculty resent it, and the ongoing debate over health risks and players’ labor rights put universities in an awkward position.

Yet few do. In the past eight years, 57 colleges and universities have started an NCAA football program. The University of Alabama, at Birmingham, restored its team to the Football Bowl Subdivision. Another 11 joined the Football Championship Subdivision (formerly known as Division I-AA), and the rest are competing at lower levels—Divisions II or III. For all but UAB, there’s little money to be made from TV or ticket sales.

In the past decade, annual football expenses at a typical FCS school have increased from less than $2 million to $3.5 million. In the same period, revenue has expanded from $430,000 to $1 million. Middle-of-the-road FCS programs—a division that includes University of Maine, Colgate, Portland State—are losing millions on football altogether.
links page to three of the six part series:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/speci...llege-football
January 3, 2017
The Unravelling of College Football Starts With All These Empty Stadiums

January 4, 2017
College Football’s Top Teams Are Built on Crippling Debt.......(and who is responsible for that debt if the Team can't win?, can't fill a stadium?, can't get a TV contract?)

January 5, 2017
Why TV Riches Aren’t Enough to Keep College Football Alive Anymore
right to left is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Political Ideologies > Progressivism

Tags
blame, debt, men, owe, patriarchy, student, women



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Patriarchy Oppresses Men as much as it does Women Gordy Political Ideologies 27 July 2nd, 2015 02:21 PM
The Student Debt Time Bomb LongWinded Current Events 15 March 13th, 2015 06:16 AM
President Obama Will Take Action On Monday To Ease Student Loan Debt skews13 Current Events 17 June 11th, 2014 06:30 AM
REPORT: Taking Action - Higher Education And Student Debt The White House The White House 0 June 10th, 2014 11:10 AM
Student Loans Hit Record $1.08 Trillion; Delinquent Student Debt Rises To All Time Hi pana8 Current Events 14 February 19th, 2014 02:25 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.