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Old May 5th, 2009, 03:07 PM   #1
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Churchgoers Most Likely To Favor Torture

A Pew Research poll has discovered the irony that churchgoers simply love torture. Exactly how this is reconciled with Christ's message is unclear. "A combined 54 percent of at-least-weekly church-goers say torture is either often or sometimes justifiable; for those who attend monthly or a few times a year, that figure is 51 percent; for those who do not attend, it is 42 percent."

Pew: Church-Goers Like Torture More - The Atlantic Politics Channel
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Old May 5th, 2009, 04:21 PM   #2
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Does it have to do with "torture" or is it simple human nature to do anything for security? I say it's the same mindset that the "protect the children" capitalize on to get people to agree to compromise internet privacy.



That, along with the "it doesn't effect me" mindset. I mean seriously, a 12% gap ain't all that wide.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 04:42 PM   #3
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Depends upon the definition of torture. If no physical harm is demonstrated the definition of torture can and is very SUBJECTIVE to personal opinion. To me torture is enduring anyone that yet presents another thread such as this for pure political reasons. About as transparent as a window pane.



But to compare torture with the method used only on 3 or 4 war criminals to save thousands of lives in the prevention of another 9/11 type attack upon US Soil is nothing but SUBJECTIVE to a liberal opinion which is solely propagated to bring harm to their political enemies instead of defending the nation at a time of war. To even compare the REAL TORTURE as evidenced by the objective physical harm and death brought to US CITIZENS and Soldiers by these religious bigots and thugs...is all to subjective in the fact that no physical harm was engaged upon any POW under US protection, in fact all such interrogation was preformed under the direct care of a Licensed Physician, in regard to the TERRIBLE CRIME OF WATER BOARDING. as such might even compare to the CARTOONS presented in the Netherlands, that caused such an outrage. Clearly no liberal has ever been subjected to College Weekend parties.....more brain cells are damaged in just one weekend as compared to the GREAT TORTURE which is just SHAMEFUL in its use against the poor fundamental freedom fighters of the middle east.



As Mark Twain was quoted as declaring...there are 3 types of lies, LIES, DAMN LIES, and STATS....such as public opinion poles which can and are manipulated to benefit the one ASKING THE QUESTIONS.
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Old May 5th, 2009, 04:46 PM   #4
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Depends upon the definition of torture. If no physical harm is demonstrated the definition of torture can and is very SUBJECTIVE to personal opinion. To me torture is enduring anyone that yet presents another thread such as this for political reasons. About as transparent as a window pane.



But to compare torture with the method used only on 3 or 4 war criminals to save thousands of lives in the prevention of another 9/11 type attack upon US Soil is nothing but SUBJECTIVE to a liberal opinion which is solely propagated to bring harm to their political enemies instead of defending the nation at a time of war. To even compare the REAL TORTURE as evidenced by the objective physical harm and death brought to US CITIZENS and Soldiers by these religious bigots and thugs...is all to subjective in the fact that no physical harm was engaged upon any POW under US protection, in fact all such interrogation was preformed under the direct care of a Licensed Physician, in regard to the TERRIBLE CRIME OF WATER BOARDING. as such one might even compare this to the CARTOONS presented in the Netherlands, that caused such an outrage. Clearly no liberal has ever been subjected to College Weekend parties.....more brain cells are damaged in just one weekend as compared to the GREAT TORTURE which is just SHAMEFUL in its use against the poor fundamental freedom fighters of the middle east.



As Mark Twain was quoted as declaring...there are 3 types of lies, LIES, DAMN LIES, and STATS....such as public opinion poles which can and are manipulated to benefit the one ASKING THE QUESTIONS.
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Old May 11th, 2009, 01:32 PM   #5
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Ralph, you are ignoring 200 years of our history. Water boarding was defined as torture since the Spanish American war. We hung Japanese soldiers for water boarding U.S. prisoners. It is torture and that hasn't changed just because Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld decided to have some lawyers "redefine" what was already defined. Torture is not a partisan issue, we are against it. It is ineffective and has proven to be ineffective, and you don't get to make up your own definitions because you don't like democrats. And as far as torture goes, Your hypocrisy is showing again Mr. Bible quoter and devout Christian. Jesus would NEVER support torturing anyone. You are still the same fanatical zealot that you were before. You don't care about people, you use your beliefs to support extremism and hate.
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Old May 11th, 2009, 04:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
the method used only on 3 or 4 war criminals


I didn't realize that there was a minimum number of people required for a heinous act to be declared torture.



What is that minimum number, please?
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Old May 11th, 2009, 06:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waitingtables
Ralph, you are ignoring 200 years of our history. Water boarding was defined as torture since the Spanish American war. We hung Japanese soldiers for water boarding U.S. prisoners. It is torture and that hasn't changed just because Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld decided to have some lawyers "redefine" what was already defined. Torture is not a partisan issue, we are against it. It is ineffective and has proven to be ineffective, and you don't get to make up your own definitions because you don't like democrats. And as far as torture goes, Your hypocrisy is showing again Mr. Bible quoter and devout Christian. Jesus would NEVER support torturing anyone. You are still the same fanatical zealot that you were before. You don't care about people, you use your beliefs to support extremism and hate.


Since when does "Subjective" historical opinion establish Christian Doctrine? A true Christian allows the Holy Scriptures to establish doctrine in order to make the "man of God...perfect, THROUGHLY furnished unto all good works" -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17. No where in the New Testament revelations of Jesus Christ will you find "self defense" considered TORTURE....in fact we find the teachings of the Christ informing us that, "When a strong man FULLY ARMED, guards his own palace, his goods are at peace." -- Luke 11:21.



Indeed...the interrogation used to DEFEND this nation from further 9/11 type attacks upon hundreds of thousands of innocents...as historically exampled by the SOP of the enemy we now face, is a far cry from being labeled TORTURE, as it was preformed under the supervision of an MD who was standing by at the ready...WITH NO PHYSICAL INJURIES incurred to self confessed WAR CRIMINALS that use women and children for human shields and have no problem at all in killing anyone that might stand in their way.



Jesus Indeed propagated SELF DEFENSE as a righteous endeavor....when it was required to protect LIFE and PROPERTY as exampled via His direct words...as He (Jesus) ORDERED His disciples to ARM THEMSELVES. He had sent His disciples, at first only the 12 (Luke 9:1-6), then 70 more (Luke 10:1-7), on two campaigns to spread the good news of the Gospel. But on these first missions He told those that He was sending on this mission to rely solely on the generosity of the their fellow countrymen, those whom they were to preach the word to. (Matthew 10:5-6).



But, Prior to His death that He knew would shortly overtake Him, He was exampled as sending them on a worldwide mission (THE GREAT COMMISSION) to spread the good news of the gospel (Matthew 28:18-20). This time Jesus prepared His disciples for something different as they would not be speaking only to their fellow countrymen and neighbors....thus He asked them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything? So they said, Nothing (they lacked nothing). He said to them, BUT NOW, he who has NO SWORD, let him sell his garment and BUY ONE." (Luke 22:35-36). Jesus very well knew that thieves and murders preyed upon travelers in that day (Luke 10:30), so He urged His disciples to prepare accordingly.



WE should do no less when we are faced with CERTAIN DANGER...and the weapon to defend ourselves from the danger is at our disposal...a weapon that brings no permanent physical harm to anyone. As Jesus declared...ONLY THE FOOL, does not prepare when faced with certain danger. And most certainly there is no greater honor than to lay down one's life in defense of a friend. (John 15:12-13).



Far from upholding pure pacifism the scriptures teach there is a time or a season for all things...to include killing when necessary ( Eccl. 3:3). God has authorized the Government to bear the Sword punitively (Romans 13-1-4), and very well permits His people to function in a military capacity....in fact the first Gentile Convert was a soldier serving his country (Acts 10:1) as well as these other scriptural examples (Luke 13:3, 10-14, Acts 10:1-8, 34-38, 11:1. Even of more concern....it is the Christian duty to care and provide for those under his protection...his family, if we do not we are considered less than infidels. ( 1 Tim. 5:.



Thus....removing a tool that will PROTECT "my family" from coming into the hands of these murderous cowards, is more than insulting to any Christian....when you try to take away this protection that God has granted our national leaders in order to defend us.



And I for one certainly smell some duplicity of intent when our COMMANDER IN CHIEF removes that tool that has been proven as the only successful means to protect our homes....especially when we are given direct VISUAL EVIDENCE SUCH AS THIS.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2BHdby0Oho"]YouTube - Not A Bow?[/ame]
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Old May 11th, 2009, 06:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin
I didn't realize that there was a minimum number of people required for a heinous act to be declared torture.



What is that minimum number, please?


Why not show us the HEINOUS results of this supposed TORTURE....there are no heads lying on the floor, there are no fingernails removed...there is no example of PHYSICAL HARM exampled upon these self confessed murderers of YOUR FELLOW countrymen. Heinous: EXTREMELY wicked. This is all moot and will go as far as the EVIDENCE takes it, after all you lying liberals where directly informed of this HEINOUS methodology in 02.....and replied, IS THAT ALL? Of course, the polls all pointed to most Americans wanting restitution for the war crimes committed against them.
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Old May 11th, 2009, 06:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Of course, the polls all pointed to most Americans wanting restitution for the war crimes committed against them.


I agree.

Put them on trial, find them guilty, and imprison them in solitary confinement for life.

But, keep them in secret and torture them?

No.

I like to think that I'm better than a terrorist.



Quote:
all you lying liberals


what - are you in like the fifth grade?
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Old May 11th, 2009, 07:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin
I agree.

Put them on trial, find them guilty, and imprison them in solitary confinement for life.

But, keep them in secret and torture them?

No.

I like to think that I'm better than a terrorist.







what - are you in like the fifth grade?


Simply pointing out the historical facts....in 02, people such as the lying Madam Speaker "fancy pelosi", was very well informed of the methods to be used. The time to speak out against such....if you are intellectually honest is BEFORE the act, not making a pretense of SUBJECTIVE OUTRAGE...after the fact thereof. If anyone was really concerned about human rights as they are suggesting it would be part of the Congressional Record. A lie, is a lie....both committed and omitted. And waterboarding is SUBJECTIVE in being defined as torture because there is NO OBJECTIVE PROOF OF PHYSICAL harm established. As I said...its torture to me....listening to the obvious SUBJECTIVE ACTS of lying.
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