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Old May 22nd, 2007, 02:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by mytmouse57
I believe that any belief that gives one a smug sense of superiority over others is ill-gotten and can lead to no good end.


MM, that's a very wise observation. Beautifully put.

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Old May 22nd, 2007, 03:45 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by mytmouse57
Yes, God is within us. All the great religious traditions say that.

For example, Jesus said, "The Kingdom of Heaven lies within you."



Likewise, "Satan" is an allegory for ego, selfishness, fear... and all the other things within us that lead to evil.



However, God is also without us.



We didn't create ourselves, after all.
I am so sick of pulling punches because I might hurt someones feelings. I'm done. Please consider carefully what I am about to write and understand it is not an attack on anyone person.



The point is you can have great moral values without being made to by a religion. Each choice you make reflect how good of a person you are. If you make good choices because you feel God influenced you than that is fine. The problem is not in the good choices, it is in the bad choices. Farwell was a good example of that. He constantly used his understanding of God's word to judge others(which is a contridiction because he had no right to judge anyone according to the bible) He constantly bashed Gays, bashed unwed couples with children and applied the words of the bible to fit his twisted understanding of right and wrong. His example points to the people that do this type of thing all the time. Pointing fingers and calling someone evil is judging. Its not what Jesus taught and it is evil. You can only ask for forgiveness so many times before it is not heard(in my understanding of it).

Another good example are the supposed holy people that don't even go to church. In the bible it says you are suppose to gather and praise his name. Every Christian, to some degree, tweaks what they think is exceptable. I have heard very few Christians here not judge others. Thats ok though? Why is that? Because you think God will understand your tweaking come judgement day? I don't think so. The problem with people like this is they are the ones that should be worried about egos and the influences of what has been stated as the gateway to evil. If you believ in it all.



Heres my take on our existence. A large astrological event took place that put the rock we call earth in the orbit of a sun. Billons and billions of years went by before an atmosphere that could support life EVOLOVED. Even more billions of years went by before other celstrial bodies crashed into the earth to allow chemicals created by chemical reactions to be introduced to our planet and put our moon in orbit to create gravity. These alien chemicals combined with other chemicals to finally create single cell organisms. Atoms combined to eventual help other multi cell organisms EVOLVE. More billions of years went by and eventually we EVOLVED. We are a Biological speck on a geological speck on an astrological speck. So small in the universe it is almost unfathomable. We weren't created by a being and we certainly weren't created by the obvious fiction presented by the bible. The Bible was written by religious leaders that wanted to keep their people in line.

Yes there was a great man named Jesus. He taught great things about love and treating people equal. There were many other great people who taught the same lessons through a different medium. The old test was written to scare people into line, cut and dry. Too much fantasy and unrealistic bullshit in there to consider it to be true, for me anyway. I've read modern horror fiction that made more sense.

Now for the bottom line. Everyone, Christian, Muslum, Hindu, Any other hard core religion I may have missed and Atheisst, have the mind and the ability to reason what is right. That ability is warped by some of the religions. You can claim it s not true but the evidence is in the History of our world. Religion fighting religion is embedded in out history and is still common. Just look at the Fudys that claim all Muslums are evil. Or the Radical Muslims that want all Christians dead. Here we are, a race on earth, one people, that has learned more than we, at one point, thought possible. When do we apply this knowledge and get past out petty differences? We all EVOLVED from the same black woman in Africa. It has be proven by means that some religious people won't even consider because it is blasphamy. DNA mapping has proven we EVOLVED and that we did so from the same woman, the first Homo Sapien. Here we are, killing each other because of religious Bullshit. Maybe not all highly religious people will even consider these words. Maybe you'll just continue to be sheep being lead to the slaughter house. If I reach just one or two religious people that may spread this concept than I'll feel this post was worth it. The choice is yours. I do need to add that there are some who take the teachings of Jesus and other peaceful men for its truth. They are usually making the right choice in there hearts. If there is a heaven they will be the few to enter.

When I said God and the Devil are inside each of us I didn't mean it literally. It is how your heart guides you though life that matters. You either do the right thing for everyone one on the planet or you don't. It comes down to who is your actual spirtual guide and if you are effected by the warped values of the misguded. Pleae try and find love and reject everyting else!!!!
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 06:13 AM   #13
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Wow, Tyr.. that was quite a tirade.



I agree with most of what you said. Religion has been twisted for evil purposes, but that doesn't make religion itself evil.



Nor, do I think it's just a bunch of crap people made up to make themsevles feel better -- that's a naive and shallow assumption, IMO. Saying a being such as Jesus or Muhammed was just a great dude with good ideas is an incredible exersise in denial, IMO.



As for EVOLUTION... nobody's trying to argue with you on that... well, at least I'm not.

The problem is, the collission of astral bodies, chemical reactions and evolution aren't CAUSES... they are MECHANISMS by which the physical world grows, manifsests and changes. You can't say evolution is a creative force.. that's daft, IMO. Evolution is a mechanism that acts in accordance to the laws and conditions that govern it. It can't create anything any more than a car could drive itself.



When I say we didn't create ourselves... by "ourselves" I didn't mean our fleshy bodies. I meant our essense, our actual being -- what some religions call the "soul."



BTW, I'm not Christian, I'm Baha'i... don't know if I made that clear previously.. my bad.



On these boards, I tend to use many "Christian" terms and concepts... because that's probably the religion most people here are the most familiar with.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 06:17 AM   #14
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I never understood why it should be taboo to attack religion...



I can say "Republicans are Assholes" and no one bats an eyelash... People acknowledge that I am entitled to my opinion whether they agree or not.



But if I say "Christians are Assholes" then people come out of the wood work to act as if I were evil or had done something wrong. Your religion is sacred only to you... not me...
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 06:23 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mytmouse57
Wow, Tyr.. that was quite a tirade.



I agree with most of what you said. Religion has been twisted for evil purposes, but that doesn't make religion itself evil.



Nor, do I think it's just a bunch of crap people made up to make themsevles feel better -- that's a naive and shallow assumption, IMO. Saying a being such as Jesus or Muhammed was just a great dude with good ideas is an incredible exersise in denial, IMO.



As for EVOLUTION... nobody's trying to argue with you on that... well, at least I'm not.

The problem is, the collission of astral bodies, chemical reactions and evolution aren't CAUSES... they are MECHANISMS by which the physical world grows, manifsests and changes. You can't say evolution is a creative force.. that's daft, IMO. Evolution is a mechanism that acts in accordance to the laws and conditions that govern it. It can't create anything any more than a car could drive itself.



When I say we didn't create ourselves... by "ourselves" I didn't mean our fleshy bodies. I meant our essense, our actual being -- what some religions call the "soul."



BTW, I'm not Christian, I'm Baha'i... don't know if I made that clear previously.. my bad.



On these boards, I tend to use many "Christian" terms and concepts... because that's probably the religion most people here are the most familiar with.
Show me some proof, other than in a religious book and you may change my mind about religon. I'm certainly open to learning.

Until then I will have to think you are the naive one. Sorry but thats how I feel.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 06:33 AM   #16
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Wow... I never heard of Bahá'í before but I do intend to read up on it...

Bah& - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 11:27 AM   #17
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"I never understood why it should be taboo to attack religion..."



Good God, it shouldn't be. If I came across as saying that... that's not what I meant.



Doubt and criticism can be faith's most valuable companions.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 11:29 AM   #18
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"Show me some proof, other than in a religious book and you may change my mind about religon. I'm certainly open to learning.

Until then I will have to think you are the naive one. Sorry but thats how I feel."



Nice guys with good ideas don't tend to still hold great sway over billions 2,000 years after departing this Earth.



Point being, the influence of these beings upon humanity has been profound. Too profound, IMO, to simply write off as them being "great thinkers" or the whole thing being the result of a sort of mass hysteria.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 12:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by mytmouse57
"Hear Hear! Beautifully Put!



I believe God is a crutch, or an imaginary friend for those afraid to be alone."


On the back of my late Aunt's memorial cards that everyone got there was a little story but I cant remember it fully so i'll wing it the best I can.



When Jason, who had a hard life and thus was mad at God because he thought he was never there for him, died of old age and was at the gates of Heaven he recalled his whole life. As he watched his life unfold he saw not one but two sets of footprints as he walked but there was no one next to him.

God said to him "You see my son, I was always there with you to help you along your way"

As it went onto his older years he watched his Wife die from cancer and as Jason walked on the beach sulking and crying over his loss. And it struck Jason that while watching this he only saw one set of footprints.

"You see God!" he said "Where were you when I needed you the most?!"

"You dont understand my child" God replied "When you when in your most despriate time of need, I was there to carry you...That is why you only see one"





Thats my winged version of it, its alot better in writing but hey...im at work right now. God isnt a crutch for those who are afraid, he is far from it for those who believe in him.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 04:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mytmouse57
Nice guys with good ideas don't tend to still hold great sway over billions 2,000 years after departing this Earth.



Point being, the influence of these beings upon humanity has been profound. Too profound, IMO, to simply write off as them being "great thinkers" or the whole thing being the result of a sort of mass hysteria.


The origin stories in the Old Testament of the Bible are taken from earlier civilizations, but the original creator gods were demonized, (the serpent was worshipped, and the priestesses who handled the snakes were immune to their poison).



The 10 commandments were reduced from the original 42 commandments of the ancient Egyptians.



The words in the 23 Psalm are supposed to say: forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors, NOT: forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. Gee, I wonder why that one got changed.



The words of Jesus Christ were twisted and tampered with throughout history to make sense for the changing times, social conditions and different leaderships, most notably shown in "Paul's" books.

Prior to Paul, women preached the word of Christ, and were the ones that kept the religion going. After Paul, they were excluded.



The King James Version of the Bible was written to make kingship look more favorable.



Great personalities, striving to make the world a better place in the worst of times, are remembered long after their deaths.
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