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Old August 6th, 2015, 08:59 AM   #1
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How do you get to heaven?

Ok let's get this out of the way first. I'm not starting this as a let's bash each others viewpoints and try to have an honest civil discussion.

There are many different viewpoints on how this goal is achieved.
what are yours and how did you come to this conclusion?

What are the things that would keep someone from "getting in"?

What do you expect it to be like?

Do you expect it to be another conscious existence?
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Old August 6th, 2015, 07:41 PM   #2
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Take Highway 92 east, take a left at state highway 56. Go right at Fruit Growers' Lane, and a left at 2100 Road. Follow it to the top of the mesa. You can't miss it.

I'm a universalist who's very comfortable with mystery, i.e. questions I can't answer. Everybody's going to Heaven.

I expect it to be a realm where all the questions, or most of them, that I have are answered, but, then I'll have a bunch more.

I see an infinite progression. I've come to these conclusions after some 46 years of studying, comparing, thinking, and meditating on "what it IS."
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Last edited by imaginethat; August 6th, 2015 at 07:44 PM.
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Old August 6th, 2015, 07:47 PM   #3
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by asking.....
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Old August 6th, 2015, 08:10 PM   #4
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by asking.....
Sweet.
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Old August 6th, 2015, 08:44 PM   #5
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I'm a universalist who's very comfortable with mystery, i.e. questions I can't answer. Everybody's going to Heaven.
Universalism, the idea that everybody goes to heaven, is the primary source of modern evil.

The Marching Morons has a happy ending with all the morons going to heaven. Now that is one form of (almost) everybody going to heaven that I could support.

But then I follow the Old Testament which says:
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Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes 3:19-22
For the fate of people and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; they all have the same breath. People have no advantage over animals since everything is futile. All are going to the same place; all come from dust, and all return to dust. Who knows if the spirit of people rises upward and the spirit of animals goes downward to the earth? I have seen that there is nothing better than for a person to enjoy his activities because that is his reward. For who can enable him to see what will happen after he dies?
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Old August 6th, 2015, 08:46 PM   #6
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Universalism, the idea that everybody goes to heaven, is the primary source of modern evil.

The Marching Morons has a happy ending with all the morons going to heaven. Now that is one form of (almost) everybody going to heaven that I could support.

But then I follow the Old Testament which says:
Hi frank
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Old August 6th, 2015, 09:26 PM   #7
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Ok let's get this out of the way first. I'm not starting this as a let's bash each others viewpoints and try to have an honest civil discussion.
I appreciate the tone you hope to set here. I enjoy civil discussion about questions where there is room for intellectuals to disagree. I'll tell you what I think, and you can take it with a grain of salt.

You've probably all heard in one form or another Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Of course. We're all sinners, yada, yada, yada, ad nauseum. It gets used, and I think misused, a lot.

What gets left out of a lot of pulpit pounding fires-of-hell messages is this: In Genesis, and again in Paul's letter to the Romans, we are reminded that "Abraham BELIEVED God and it counted for him as righteousness." In other words, there is nothing to DO or NOT DO, it's a free gift in exchange for a believing heart. That means nothing else counts for or against you.

Where is heaven, and what's it like? After a half century of Bible study, here's my take: I don't know. It's a mystery. What I DON'T believe is that it's up in the sky somewhere, with angels sitting on clouds and strumming harps. For eternity? Yuck!

I'm inclined to think it may exist in another dimension where spacetime has no relevance. But that's just my personal hunch. I can't back it up with either scripture or science, except that in the realm of eternity time would be meaningless. That's all. I know I'll get the crap beat of me for sharing this, but that's okay, because we're going to be civil. Right?
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Old August 6th, 2015, 09:39 PM   #8
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I appreciate the tone you hope to set here. I enjoy civil discussion about questions where there is room for intellectuals to disagree. I'll tell you what I think, and you can take it with a grain of salt.

You've probably all heard in one form or another Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Of course. We're all sinners, yada, yada, yada, ad nauseum. It gets used, and I think misused, a lot.

What gets left out of a lot of pulpit pounding fires-of-hell messages is this: In Genesis, and again in Paul's letter to the Romans, we are reminded that "Abraham BELIEVED God and it counted for him as righteousness." In other words, there is nothing to DO or NOT DO, it's a free gift in exchange for a believing heart. That means nothing else counts for or against you.

Where is heaven, and what's it like? After a half century of Bible study, here's my take: I don't know. It's a mystery. What I DON'T believe is that it's up in the sky somewhere, with angels sitting on clouds and strumming harps. For eternity? Yuck!

I'm inclined to think it may exist in another dimension where spacetime has no relevance. But that's just my personal hunch. I can't back it up with either scripture or science, except that in the realm of eternity time would be meaningless. That's all. I know I'll get the crap beat of me for sharing this, but that's okay, because we're going to be civil. Right?
I'm not being flippant, this is an honest question. How do you know you will like it? How do you know it is a goal worth sacrificing for?

Many years ago, and the fellow had little to no biblical knowledge, I knew a guy who went to church regularly every week but never ever professed anything about it. Then one day he quit. I asked him about it and his reasoning was this: spending a couple of hours a week to ensure eternity in heaven was a small price to pay. I didn't know that was essentially Pascal's wager at the time. So I asked him what changed his mind. His answer was that one week the minister talked about a heaven of sitting around, or at least that's how he heard it. And he decided he'd be bored without the option of dying at that point.

I know all the illogic to his position, but my first paragraph question stands.
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Old August 6th, 2015, 09:46 PM   #9
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Fuck all of that sinning nonsense. All a sort of trash really. I'm doomed to be cast into hellfire for the sheer crime of existing? What kind of tyrannical shit is that? Fuck off.
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Old August 6th, 2015, 10:12 PM   #10
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I'm not being flippant, this is an honest question. How do you know you will like it? How do you know it is a goal worth sacrificing for?
I don't consider that I've actually sacrificed anything, but I've avoided a lot of calamity by not making stupid choices (like driving drunk). Driving sober isn't really a sacrifice in the long run. Belonging to a church is an opportunity to have a peaceful caring relationship with people who are exploring the same mysteries as myself. That's not a sacrifice. It's like a support group, or an extended family.

One thing the Bible promises is that all will be revealed. That's kind of cool. I don't think I would object to having answers to all my deepest questions about the universe. But truthfully, I read Dante's Paradiso and it literally put me to sleep. So no, I don't buy the traditional concept of heaven with clouds and angels strumming harps, and sitting around eating organic fruit and being happy. I'm thinking it will be full of adventure. But really... I don't know.

I've got an awful lot to be concerned about right here and now.

Last edited by Asimov; August 6th, 2015 at 10:14 PM.
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