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Old September 6th, 2016, 03:59 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Twisted Sister View Post
I had to go to Instructor School in the service many decades ago and the main thing I remember is objective and subjective reasoning. What I remember from that is subjective is bad and objective is good. Analytical means analysis and why I picked that word.
Subjective reasoning is not always bad, it depends what your goal is.
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Old September 6th, 2016, 04:06 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
Damage from the "global warming scam" is a scam in itself.

It is an attempt by the anti science wing of the political right wing to discredit substantiated science for political purposes.
There is bias on both sides. I find the bias on the global warming side to be more of a threat since they have been caught lying so many times, they never use blind studies, they stifle debate preventing peer review, and have been caught admitting their political goals.
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Old September 6th, 2016, 04:31 AM   #43
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Subjective reasoning is not always bad, it depends what your goal is.
The main difference between objective and subjective reasoning is it's value in convincing another person. If I watched a UFO land in my front yard and little green naked one-eyed beings got out and walked around, I would believe such a subjective experience. But if I told you and you believed it just because I told you, I would think you pretty gullible.
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Old September 6th, 2016, 12:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
The main difference between objective and subjective reasoning is it's value in convincing another person. If I watched a UFO land in my front yard and little green naked one-eyed beings got out and walked around, I would believe such a subjective experience. But if I told you and you believed it just because I told you, I would think you pretty gullible.
People are extremely rarely , if ever, persuaded by logic. Almost all the time people decide based on emotion what they want to believe and then look for rationale that supports what they already decided.

Look at the whole polar bear scam use in the global warming debate. They showed polar bears as these lovable grateful creatures you can save from drowning by fighting global warming. Facts are polar bears a merciless predators that kill people whenever it suits them. There are more of them than have ever been counted before. And it's doubtful you could drowned one if you dumped it in the open ocean a thousand miles from shore. They are tremendous swimmers. But it was a persuasive campaign despite the lack of objective logic because it was an emotional (i.e. Subjective) appeal.
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Old September 8th, 2016, 06:57 AM   #45
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The goal for science is to be objective. The conundrum is total objectivity is impossible for the human mind. Anyone, and scientist do this a lot, who ever claims to be completely objective is either stupid, delusional, or a liar.
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Old September 30th, 2016, 11:47 AM   #46
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Bias does not enter into it unless you can prove (or at least strongly demonstrate) that bias somehow affected the results/conclusions of the scientific study in question.
Google up scientific bias, read a few articles. This statement is fantastically stupid.

Bias is always present, always.
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Old October 9th, 2016, 02:19 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
People are extremely rarely , if ever, persuaded by logic. Almost all the time people decide based on emotion what they want to believe and then look for rationale that supports what they already decided.

Look at the whole polar bear scam use in the global warming debate. They showed polar bears as these lovable grateful creatures you can save from drowning by fighting global warming. Facts are polar bears a merciless predators that kill people whenever it suits them. There are more of them than have ever been counted before. And it's doubtful you could drowned one if you dumped it in the open ocean a thousand miles from shore. They are tremendous swimmers. But it was a persuasive campaign despite the lack of objective logic because it was an emotional (i.e. Subjective) appeal.
While polar bears appear to be outstanding long-distance swimmers, it also appears that the longer the distance they have to swim to ice to hunt seals for food, the greater the cost is for their survival as a species that relies on such source of food.:

Quote:
Longest Polar Bear Swim Recorded—426 Miles Straight


By Anne Casselman, for National Geographic News

PUBLISHED JULY 22, 2011


A female polar bear swam for a record-breaking nine days straight, traversing 426 miles (687 kilometers) of water—equivalent to the distance between Washington, D.C., and Boston, a new study says.

The predator made her epic journey in the Beaufort Sea (see map), where sea ice is shrinking due to global warming, forcing mother bears to swim greater and greater distances to reach land—to the peril of their cubs.

The cub of the record-setting bear, for instance, died at some point between starting the swim and when the researchers next observed the mother on land. She also lost 22 percent of her body weight.

"We're pretty sure that these animals didn't have to do these long swims before, because 687-kilometer stretches of open water didn't occur very often in the evolutionary history of the polar bear," said study co-author Steven Amstrup, chief scientist for the conservation group Polar Bears International. Amstrup is also the former project leader of polar bear research for the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), which led the new study.

Another female bear in the study swam for more than 12 days, but appears to have found places to rest during her journey.

Long Swims Deadly for Polar Bear Cubs

Biologists collared 68 female polar bears between 2004 and 2009 to study their movements. Thanks to what study co-author and WWF polar bear biologist Geoff York calls an "accident of technology and design," the researchers noticed data gaps in the bears' whereabouts. The researchers were later able to link the gaps to periods when the bears were at sea. (See polar bear pictures.)

The scientists examined GPS data for more than 50 female polar bears' long-distance swimming events, defined as swims longer than 30 miles (50 kilometers). This data was then correlated to rates of cub survival.

"Bears that engaged in long-distance swimming were more likely to experience cub loss," said study co-author George Durner, a USGS research zoologist in Anchorage, Alaska.

Five of the 11 mothers that had cubs before they began their lengthy swims lost their young by the time the researchers observed them again on land, according to the research, presented July 19 at the International Bear Association Conference in Ottawa, Canada. The study is not yet published in a journal.

Sea Ice Loss to Continue

Until 1995, summer sea ice usually remained over along the continental shelf of the Beaufort Sea, a critical habitat for polar bears due to its rich seal population. Now the sea ice in the Beaufort and Chukchi Seas is retreating from the coast by hundreds of kilometers, Durner said.

In 2010, Arctic sea ice extent was the third lowest on record, part of a long-term trend of ice loss that will continue for decades to come, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colorado.

"So the sort of conditions that contribute to long-distance swimming are likely going to persist in the future, and if cub mortality is directly related to this, then it would have a negative impact on the population," Durner said.

It's unknown whether the cubs are drowning at sea or whether the metabolically costly act of swimming long distances in nearly freezing water kills them after they reach land.


Longest Polar Bear Swim Recorded?426 Miles Straight
Additionally, the claim that "there are more (polar bears) than have ever been counted before" is rather difficult to accept as being true, in the context you are implying, since it has only been the last decade or so that their population estimates have been nothing more than exceedingly subjective guesstimates.

Last edited by baloney_detector; October 9th, 2016 at 02:29 AM.
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Old October 9th, 2016, 07:30 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by webguy4
People are extremely rarely , if ever, persuaded by logic. Almost all the time people decide based on emotion what they want to believe and then look for rationale that supports what they already decided.
That's exactly true. Take, for example, the Young Earth Creationists and their so-called creation science.
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