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Old February 4th, 2014, 08:37 AM   #31
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agreed and he really looks like a pervert. who keeps letting him adopt children with these accusations?
Who keeps letting him marry children Mia Farrow adopts?
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Old February 4th, 2014, 08:56 AM   #32
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What are you talking about? That in no way is what he is saying by saying that and I have no idea why you would think that. Nothing about molestation or pedophilia has anything to do with being gay. A pedophile may or may not engage in molestation, but that is unrelated to the subject of being gay.
That is absolutely what he is saying. He is saying that child molesters and pedophiles are the same thing, because a child molester is a pedophile (which actually even statistically true, but regardless). Well a rapist can also be gay or straight. Does that mean that all gays/straights are rapists?

Society has taken the term pedophile and blended the sexual attraction with the act, and it stigmatizes people who have and would never have done anything wrong.

In fact, most child molesters AREN'T pedophilic strangers, in fact it's quite the opposite. Much like how most prison rape isn't actually committed by gays.
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Old February 4th, 2014, 09:25 AM   #33
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That is absolutely what he is saying. He is saying that child molesters and pedophiles are the same thing, because a child molester is a pedophile (which actually even statistically true, but regardless). Well a rapist can also be gay or straight. Does that mean that all gays/straights are rapists?

Society has taken the term pedophile and blended the sexual attraction with the act, and it stigmatizes people who have and would never have done anything wrong.

In fact, most child molesters AREN'T pedophilic strangers, in fact it's quite the opposite. Much like how most prison rape isn't actually committed by gays.
No, that has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Pedophilia is not gay or straight, it is an adult attracted to children.
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Old February 4th, 2014, 09:00 PM   #34
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That is absolutely what he is saying. He is saying that child molesters and pedophiles are the same thing, because a child molester is a pedophile (which actually even statistically true, but regardless). Well a rapist can also be gay or straight. Does that mean that all gays/straights are rapists?
Ah, I think i see now what you're saying. Edit: As a criminal offense, it isn't treated as such by common law, rather as a psychological abnormality to be treated by psychologists. But... the line between pedophilia and child molestation is still horribly thin, in definition and crossing over into a criminal offense. But still your analogy isn't right. All Child molesters were once pedophiles. Whereas the majority of a adult population are not budding rapists. Rapist and pedophilia are two distinct forms of disorders, (some would say sex crimes are a disease born of the perpetrator, but that is for another debate).
Rape focuses on power through control, sexual gratification being of secondary importance.
Pedophilia focuses on the afflicted abnormal sexual attraction to and acting out their sexual fantasies on underage children, to which crossing that line from an urge to action is relatively easy. Control is only secondary to not being caught via manipulating a child's trust of adults. Thus, this is why i say the child victims are the issue here, not your juxtaposing rape alongside pedophilia. Coincidentally, pedophiles are not known by psychologists to seek treatment voluntarily (Rarely doing so on their own free will),treatment is usually derived from a court order:

There are a number of difficulties with the diagnosis of pedophilia. People who have the disease rarely seek help voluntarily—counseling and treatment are often the result of a court order. Interviews, surveillance, or Internet records obtained through the criminal investigation can be helpful evidence in diagnosing the disorder.


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Society has taken the term pedophile and blended the sexual attraction with the act, and it stigmatizes people who have and would never have done anything wrong.
So, are you now arguing for legislation that opens up and protects a pedophiles right to molest any underage child's body they so desire?

Quote:
In fact, most child molesters AREN'T pedophilic strangers, in fact it's quite the opposite. Much like how most prison rape isn't actually committed by gays.
True, but you needed to go further by stating that most any minor or major crimes committed aren't done by strangers, more often than not a victim of any type of crime knows the perpetrator. Incidentally, as you mentioned prison rape as not being a gay issue, again they are not the same issue here as pedophilia and child molestation.
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Old February 6th, 2014, 04:23 PM   #35
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Interesting development:

Moses comes to the defense of his father

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Dylan Farrow's Feb. 1 open letter to The New York Times detailing sexual molestation she says she suffered at the hands of her father Woody Allen reignited a controversy that has divided their family bitterly for more than 20 years.

Now her brother Moses Farrow is speaking out to defend Allen – and accuse their mother, Mia Farrow, of poisoning the children against their father.

"My mother drummed it into me to hate my father for tearing apart the family and sexually molesting my sister," Moses, 36, tells PEOPLE in the magazine's new issue. "And I hated him for her for years. I see now that this was a vengeful way to pay him back for falling in love with Soon-Yi."

A Family Divided

Moses and Dylan, 28, both adopted by Allen and Farrow, and their brother Ronan, 26, were in the center of a 1993 custody battle in which both sides testified about Allen's affair with Farrow's adopted daughter Soon-Yi Previn, whom Allen went on to marry in 1997. Farrow was awarded custody of the couple's three children. (In total, she has 14 kids from her marriages and solo adoptions.) Allen, 78, who was investigated but not charged with molestation, has for decades denied abusing Dylan, maintaining that Farrow, 69, coached Dylan, an accusation Farrow has always denied.

"Of course Woody did not molest my sister," says Moses, who is estranged from Farrow and many of his siblings and is close to Allen and Soon-Yi. "She loved him and looked forward to seeing him when he would visit. She never hid from him until our mother succeeded in creating the atmosphere of fear and hate towards him. The day in question, there were six or seven of us in the house. We were all in public rooms and no one, not my father or sister, was off in any private spaces. My mother was conveniently out shopping. I don’t know if my sister really believes she was molested or is trying to please her mother. Pleasing my mother was very powerful motivation because to be on her wrong side was horrible."

Dylan's Response
Dylan insists that she is telling the truth.

"This is such a betrayal to me and my whole family," she tells PEOPLE in response to her brother's comments. "My memories are the truth and they are mine and I will live with that for the rest of my life."

"My mother never coached me," Dylan says. "She never planted false memories in my brain. My memories are mine. I remember them. She was distraught when I told her. When I came forward with my story she was hoping against hope that I had made it up. In one of the most heartbreaking conversations I have ever had, she sat me down and asked me if I was telling the truth. She said that Dad said he didn’t do anything. and I said, 'He's lying.' "

Painful Memories
Moses accuses Farrow of bullying him as well. "Our mother has misled the public into believing it was a happy household of both biological and adopted children," he says. "From an early age, my mother demanded obedience and I was often hit as a child. She went into unbridled rages if we angered her, which was intimidating at the very least and often horrifying, leaving us not knowing what she would do."

"I don't know where he gets this about getting beaten," counters Dylan. "We were sent to our rooms sometimes."

"I will not see my family dragged down like this," she adds. "I can't stay silent when my family needs me and I will not abandon them like Soon-Yi and Moses. My brother is dead to me. My mother is so brave and so courageous and taught me what it means to be strong and brave and tell the truth even in the face of these monstrous lies."

Farrow, who declined to respond to Moses's accusations, Tweeted, "I love my daughter. I will always protect her. A lot of ugliness is going to be aimed at me. But this is not about me, it's about her truth."

Moses, a family therapist, says that his own life has been made better by spending time with Allen.

"I think my sister is missing a great deal in life in not reconnecting with her father, who had always adored her," he says. "It’s important that she assert her independence from our mother and not go through life with the false impression that she has been molested by my father. I am very happy I have come into my own power, separating from my mother, which has led to a positive reunion with my father."

'Horrible Tragedy'
Allen's family says that the director is devastated by Dylan's letter.

"This is a horrible, horrible tragedy," Allen's sister Letty Aronson tells PEOPLE. "He feels very badly for Dylan, that she has been so poisoned by her mother."

Dylan, of course, feels very differently.

"I have a wonderful family," she says. "We are brave and we are truthful and anyone who says anything otherwise does not know us."
It seems to me that Woody is being manipulative here. Might i be wrong?
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Old February 8th, 2014, 07:24 AM   #36
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Likely nobody cares about this thread anymore, but just in case....

Woody Allen's response


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TWENTY-ONE years ago, when I first heard Mia Farrow had accused me of child molestation, I found the idea so ludicrous I didn’t give it a second thought. We were involved in a terribly acrimonious breakup, with great enmity between us and a custody battle slowly gathering energy. The self-serving transparency of her malevolence seemed so obvious I didn’t even hire a lawyer to defend myself. It was my show business attorney who told me she was bringing the accusation to the police and I would need a criminal lawyer.

I naïvely thought the accusation would be dismissed out of hand because of course, I hadn’t molested Dylan and any rational person would see the ploy for what it was. Common sense would prevail. After all, I was a 56-year-old man who had never before (or after) been accused of child molestation. I had been going out with Mia for 12 years and never in that time did she ever suggest to me anything resembling misconduct. Now, suddenly, when I had driven up to her house in Connecticut one afternoon to visit the kids for a few hours, when I would be on my raging adversary’s home turf, with half a dozen people present, when I was in the blissful early stages of a happy new relationship with the woman I’d go on to marry — that I would pick this moment in time to embark on a career as a child molester should seem to the most skeptical mind highly unlikely. The sheer illogic of such a crazy scenario seemed to me dispositive.

Notwithstanding, Mia insisted that I had abused Dylan and took her immediately to a doctor to be examined. Dylan told the doctor she had not been molested. Mia then took Dylan out for ice cream, and when she came back with her the child had changed her story. The police began their investigation; a possible indictment hung in the balance. I very willingly took a lie-detector test and of course passed because I had nothing to hide. I asked Mia to take one and she wouldn’t. Last week a woman named Stacey Nelkin, whom I had dated many years ago, came forward to the press to tell them that when Mia and I first had our custody battle 21 years ago, Mia had wanted her to testify that she had been underage when I was dating her, despite the fact this was untrue. Stacey refused. I include this anecdote so we all know what kind of character we are dealing with here. One can imagine in learning this why she wouldn’t take a lie-detector test.

Meanwhile the Connecticut police turned for help to a special investigative unit they relied on in such cases, the Child Sexual Abuse Clinic of the Yale-New Haven Hospital. This group of impartial, experienced men and women whom the district attorney looked to for guidance as to whether to prosecute, spent months doing a meticulous investigation, interviewing everyone concerned, and checking every piece of evidence. Finally they wrote their conclusion which I quote here: “It is our expert opinion that Dylan was not sexually abused by Mr. Allen. Further, we believe that Dylan’s statements on videotape and her statements to us during our evaluation do not refer to actual events that occurred to her on August 4th, 1992... In developing our opinion we considered three hypotheses to explain Dylan’s statements. First, that Dylan’s statements were true and that Mr. Allen had sexually abused her; second, that Dylan’s statements were not true but were made up by an emotionally vulnerable child who was caught up in a disturbed family and who was responding to the stresses in the family; and third, that Dylan was coached or influenced by her mother, Ms. Farrow. While we can conclude that Dylan was not sexually abused, we can not be definite about whether the second formulation by itself or the third formulation by itself is true. We believe that it is more likely that a combination of these two formulations best explains Dylan’s allegations of sexual abuse.”

Could it be any clearer? Mr. Allen did not abuse Dylan; most likely a vulnerable, stressed-out 7-year-old was coached by Mia Farrow. This conclusion disappointed a number of people. The district attorney was champing at the bit to prosecute a celebrity case, and Justice Elliott Wilk, the custody judge, wrote a very irresponsible opinion saying when it came to the molestation, “we will probably never know what occurred.”

But we did know because it had been determined and there was no equivocation about the fact that no abuse had taken place. Justice Wilk was quite rough on me and never approved of my relationship with Soon-Yi, Mia’s adopted daughter, who was then in her early 20s. He thought of me as an older man exploiting a much younger woman, which outraged Mia as improper despite the fact she had dated a much older Frank Sinatra when she was 19. In fairness to Justice Wilk, the public felt the same dismay over Soon-Yi and myself, but despite what it looked like our feelings were authentic and we’ve been happily married for 16 years with two great kids, both adopted. (Incidentally, coming on the heels of the media circus and false accusations, Soon-Yi and I were extra carefully scrutinized by both the adoption agency and adoption courts, and everyone blessed our adoptions.)

Mia took custody of the children and we went our separate ways.

I was heartbroken. Moses was angry with me. Ronan I didn’t know well because Mia would never let me get close to him from the moment he was born and Dylan, whom I adored and was very close to and about whom Mia called my sister in a rage and said, “He took my daughter, now I’ll take his.” I never saw her again nor was I able to speak with her no matter how hard I tried. I still loved her deeply, and felt guilty that by falling in love with Soon-Yi I had put her in the position of being used as a pawn for revenge. Soon-Yi and I made countless attempts to see Dylan but Mia blocked them all, spitefully knowing how much we both loved her but totally indifferent to the pain and damage she was causing the little girl merely to appease her own vindictiveness.

Here I quote Moses Farrow, 14 at the time: “My mother drummed it into me to hate my father for tearing apart the family and sexually molesting my sister.” Moses is now 36 years old and a family therapist by profession. “Of course Woody did not molest my sister,” he said. “She loved him and looked forward to seeing him when he would visit. She never hid from him until our mother succeeded in creating the atmosphere of fear and hate towards him.” Dylan was 7, Ronan 4, and this was, according to Moses, the steady narrative year after year.

I pause here for a quick word on the Ronan situation. Is he my son or, as Mia suggests, Frank Sinatra’s? Granted, he looks a lot like Frank with the blue eyes and facial features, but if so what does this say? That all during the custody hearing Mia lied under oath and falsely represented Ronan as our son? Even if he is not Frank’s, the possibility she raises that he could be, indicates she was secretly intimate with him during our years. Not to mention all the money I paid for child support. Was I supporting Frank’s son? Again, I want to call attention to the integrity and honesty of a person who conducts her life like that.

NOW it’s 21 years later and Dylan has come forward with the accusations that the Yale experts investigated and found false. Plus a few little added creative flourishes that seem to have magically appeared during our 21-year estrangement.

Not that I doubt Dylan hasn’t come to believe she’s been molested, but if from the age of 7 a vulnerable child is taught by a strong mother to hate her father because he is a monster who abused her, is it so inconceivable that after many years of this indoctrination the image of me Mia wanted to establish had taken root? Is it any wonder the experts at Yale had picked up the maternal coaching aspect 21 years ago? Even the venue where the fabricated molestation was supposed to have taken place was poorly chosen but interesting. Mia chose the attic of her country house, a place she should have realized I’d never go to because it is a tiny, cramped, enclosed spot where one can hardly stand up and I’m a major claustrophobe. The one or two times she asked me to come in there to look at something, I did, but quickly had to run out. Undoubtedly the attic idea came to her from the Dory Previn song, “With My Daddy in the Attic.” It was on the same record as the song Dory Previn had written about Mia’s betraying their friendship by insidiously stealing her husband, André, “Beware of Young Girls.” One must ask, did Dylan even write the letter or was it at least guided by her mother? Does the letter really benefit Dylan or does it simply advance her mother’s shabby agenda? That is to hurt me with a smear. There is even a lame attempt to do professional damage by trying to involve movie stars, which smells a lot more like Mia than Dylan.

After all, if speaking out was really a necessity for Dylan, she had already spoken out months earlier in Vanity Fair. Here I quote Moses Farrow again: “Knowing that my mother often used us as pawns, I cannot trust anything that is said or written from anyone in the family.” Finally, does Mia herself really even believe I molested her daughter? Common sense must ask: Would a mother who thought her 7-year-old daughter was sexually abused by a molester (a pretty horrific crime), give consent for a film clip of her to be used to honor the molester at the Golden Globes?

Of course, I did not molest Dylan. I loved her and hope one day she will grasp how she has been cheated out of having a loving father and exploited by a mother more interested in her own festering anger than her daughter’s well-being. Being taught to hate your father and made to believe he molested you has already taken a psychological toll on this lovely young woman, and Soon-Yi and I are both hoping that one day she will understand who has really made her a victim and reconnect with us, as Moses has, in a loving, productive way. No one wants to discourage abuse victims from speaking out, but one must bear in mind that sometimes there are people who are falsely accused and that is also a terribly destructive thing. (This piece will be my final word on this entire matter and no one will be responding on my behalf to any further comments on it by any party. Enough people have been hurt.)
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Old February 8th, 2014, 07:24 AM   #37
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Old February 8th, 2014, 07:56 AM   #38
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Ah, I think i see now what you're saying. Edit: As a criminal offense, it isn't treated as such by common law, rather as a psychological abnormality to be treated by psychologists. But... the line between pedophilia and child molestation is still horribly thin, in definition and crossing over into a criminal offense. But still your analogy isn't right. All Child molesters were once pedophiles. Whereas the majority of a adult population are not budding rapists.
The majority of pedophiles are not budding child molesters either. You see, the only pedophiles you are really aware of are CONVICTED child molesters, because you can't just walk out and say "I'm a pedophile" due to that very thin line.

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Originally Posted by Panther
Rapist and pedophilia are two distinct forms of disorders, (some would say sex crimes are a disease born of the perpetrator, but that is for another debate).
Rape is a physical action, and pedophilia is a sexual orientation. Neither of them are disorders.

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Originally Posted by Panther
Rape focuses on power through control, sexual gratification being of secondary importance.
Pedophilia focuses on the afflicted abnormal sexual attraction to and acting out their sexual fantasies on underage children, to which crossing that line from an urge to action is relatively easy. Control is only secondary to not being caught via manipulating a child's trust of adults. Thus, this is why i say the child victims are the issue here, not your juxtaposing rape alongside pedophilia. Coincidentally, pedophiles are not known by psychologists to seek treatment voluntarily (Rarely doing so on their own free will),treatment is usually derived from a court order:


That is all entirely subjective. People can rape for sexual gratification, and child molesters can molest children for control as well. That is a weak argument to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panther
There are a number of difficulties with the diagnosis of pedophilia. People who have the disease rarely seek help voluntarily—counseling and treatment are often the result of a court order. Interviews, surveillance, or Internet records obtained through the criminal investigation can be helpful evidence in diagnosing the disorder.
Because their lives are in danger? A known pedophile faces more social discrimination than any other group today, even if they are non offending or have never had the intention of doing so.

In fact, pedophiles are the only group of people who seem to be hated unanimously among all political, social and religious alignments to the point of physical threats and violence.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Panther
So, are you now arguing for legislation that opens up and protects a pedophiles right to molest any underage child's body they so desire?
Yes, that is totally what I have been arguing for Panther.

Get a clue dude.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Panther
True, but you needed to go further by stating that most any minor or major crimes committed aren't done by strangers, more often than not a victim of any type of crime knows the perpetrator. Incidentally, as you mentioned prison rape as not being a gay issue, again they are not the same issue here as pedophilia and child molestation.
In a lot of cases, yes they are.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 08:28 AM   #39
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Yes, that is totally what I have been arguing for Panther.

Get a clue dude.
Fucking hell! Have you ever been around a child that has been used and abused by an adult, even if they were manipulated into believing they wanted the contact? It's fuckin' hell just trying to keep them alive and to help them get their lives straightened out!

You know what, fuck this! I have nothing further too say to you on this subject.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 09:24 AM   #40
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Fucking hell! Have you ever been around a child that has been used and abused by an adult, even if they were manipulated into believing they wanted the contact? It's fuckin' hell just trying to keep them alive and to help them get their lives straightened out!

You know what, fuck this! I have nothing further too say to you on this subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm
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