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Old June 4th, 2017, 11:54 AM   #51
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Slavery wasn't one aspect of secession; it was the very reason for it. Whatever the legalities, this was the reason. Nothing else!
It was not. The stage was set in the 1830s with the nullification crisis and continued on to 1861. Slavery was not a reason. The federal government attempting to dictate to the states that they had to abolish slavery was the issue. This was the same concept for the reason behind the Revolutionary War.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 11:56 AM   #52
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Andrew Jackson is also the one who unleashed the Indian Wars in the south..a genocidal forced expulsion of Choctaw, Creek, Chickasaw, Seminole and the Cherokee's from what is today's southern states. There are likely a few other tribes eradicated that I forgot to mention, but if Americans want to teach their history then teach the whole Goddammed history, including eradicating native populations..cleansing a continent of people, and filling it with enslaved farm, domestic and even industrial labor! This is why it's foolish to deny that America wasn't an empire and had dreams of imperial expansion right from the beginning. The main reason why America was 'isolationist' and wanted mostly to be uninvolved with Europe's and the rest of the world's problems was because it wasn't until the mid-19th century that they started running out of open space and lands and resources to exploit. Once they did start settling the continent, than it was on to overseas colonialization like every other empire!

AMERICA: built with free labor on stolen land! Like it or lump it this July 4th!....no I don't celebrate Canada Day either!
You left out what the same government that initiated the Civil War did to the Indians under Grant.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 12:01 PM   #53
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We've even discovered previously undisclosed notes and documents from the leaders of the Confederate States of America that inform about their plans to overrun Brazil and Mexico to establish slave colonies there...so pretending this wasn't about slavery is a joke!

Worth noting that...although the northern states and England wanted to keep publicly separated from slavery, on an economic level, they also benefited from the slave industry of the South, since most of the cheap cotton...the most valuable product at that time...was shipped to textile mills in the north and over to England to make clothing and other materials.
I think you are confusing that with Confederados who moved to Brazil after the war.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 01:17 PM   #54
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It was not. The stage was set in the 1830s with the nullification crisis and continued on to 1861. Slavery was not a reason. The federal government attempting to dictate to the states that they had to abolish slavery was the issue. This was the same concept for the reason behind the Revolutionary War.
Yes, thanks for proving my point Jimmy - the federal government attempted to dictate that states had to abolish slavery and they didn't want to so they seceded.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 01:32 PM   #55
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I guess a picture of your hero is an improvement over your running commentary on Jefferson's finger collection...
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Old June 4th, 2017, 01:34 PM   #56
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Yes, thanks for proving my point Jimmy - the federal government attempted to dictate that states had to abolish slavery and they didn't want to so they seceded.
You point was not proven. Tariffs and economic issues dating to the 1830s was the issue along with state sovereignty. Slavery was a component of economics and state sovereignty.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 01:36 PM   #57
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I guess a picture of your hero is an improvement over your running commentary on Jefferson's finger collection...
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Old June 4th, 2017, 01:42 PM   #58
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I gotta admit, when you lose it, you don't mess around...
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Old June 4th, 2017, 01:45 PM   #59
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You point was not proven. Tariffs and economic issues dating to the 1830s was the issue along with state sovereignty. Slavery was a component of economics and state sovereignty.
I suggest you reread your point then. Tariffs and economic issues? And what were they tied up with? The peculiar institution.

Look I am not denigrating the brave men who fought for the confederacy. The vast majority fought for what they truly believed was a noble cause. However, it wasn't. That doesn't diminish their valor or honor; it also doesn't make their cause right!
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Old June 4th, 2017, 01:50 PM   #60
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I suggest you reread your point then. Tariffs and economic issues? And what were they tied up with? The peculiar institution.

Look I am not denigrating the brave men who fought for the confederacy. The vast majority fought for what they truly believed was a noble cause. However, it wasn't. That doesn't diminish their valor or honor; it also doesn't make their cause right!
I do not need to re-read my point. I know my point and I know history.
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