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Old February 18th, 2018, 06:32 AM   #91
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Agreed. I have a theory that the whole "madly in love" thing is like a chemical bond that is to a large degree temporary, lasting maybe six months, maybe six years.
A "glue" that holds a couple together long enough for them to figure out a way to live together in relative peace and harmony. As the binding "glue" loosens it's grip over time it is replaced with the common "bond" of children, family, material things or simply comfortable routine.
You hear it all the time. Yeah, i'd divorce the bitch/bastard in a heartbeat BUT the children are still young, I'd lose my home, I'd lose the business I've worked so hard to build, he's a good provider, etc. etc. etc. Hell SOME women won't get divorced simply because they don't want to have to date again and go to all the work of "house-breaking" a new man.
With many, of both sexes it's a simple matter of "better the Devil you know than the one you don't."
I really think that people should know each other for at least a year before even thinking of getting married. Long enough for both parties to lose the 'best behavior' attitude and start acting normally.
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Old February 18th, 2018, 06:38 AM   #92
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I really think that people should know each other for at least a year before even thinking of getting married. Long enough for both parties to lose the 'best behavior' attitude and start acting normally.
Absolutely, a bare minimum of one year.
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Old February 18th, 2018, 06:43 AM   #93
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Absolutely, a bare minimum of one year.
Living together for a while wouldn't hurt either. I really don't think you can know someone until you've lived with them for awhile.
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Old February 18th, 2018, 06:49 AM   #94
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I much rather be alone and free than trapped with someone who makes me unhappy. It took me awhile to adjust to my freedom, but now, it would take an extremely special man to get me to give up my freedom. After my marriage, it took me too many years to learn to be happy again. Why would a sane person give up happiness to be the extension of what another human being wants?
EXACTLY, BRAVO!!!
Do you live your life or do you live the life that another expects or wants you to live?
That is a choice people have to make.

I've a print on my wall that says... Don't walk in front of me, I may not want to follow.
Don't walk behind me, I may not want to lead.
Just walk my my side and be my friend.

Long ago forgot the name of the original author.
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Old February 18th, 2018, 07:07 AM   #95
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Interesting, but not sure I agree 100%.
I will agree that religion, particularly conservative Christian, in this country at least, fucks up a lot of people's attitudes towards sex.
Part of it goes WAAAY back in western culture and paternalistic societies (right word?) customs societies. The oldest son inherited the land and property 2nd and 3rd sons were allocated to the priesthood and/or the military by tradition.
And the ONLY sure way for the landed gentry to be certain that son was theirs was by marrying a certified virgin. This was all long before DNA tests and 1-800-who'smydaddy. In some cultures there had to be witnesses to the consummation of the marriage and there had better be blood on the sheets as "evidence."
Prostitution was common and widespread in the U.S. prior to the 20th century and it was subtly condoned by the wives. The idea being that the husband could have good old nasty SEX with the whores and sex with the wife was reserved for procreation. That a "decent wife" should not have to "submit to" sex for fun. The wife was not supposed to enjoy sex, it was a "duty" and primary to produce children.
There are fewer things than sex that screw up westerners, Americans in particular it seems.
IMHO of course.
YUP It's all part and parcel of what I was saying. A portion of it can be traced back to the Catholic church of the 1300s. A couple of priests, I suspect serious woman hating gays, wrote a book that theorized that since women had no control over the monthly cycle, they had no control over their sexuality. That meant there was all this uncontrolled sexuality just floating around in the air. So if your husband stopped off at the whore house, not really his fault. If he raped the neighbors daughter, not really his fault. If you got raped, not really your assailants fault. A man's only defense against all that uncontrolled sexuality floating around was lots of prayer and being close to God !!
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Old February 18th, 2018, 08:10 AM   #96
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YUP It's all part and parcel of what I was saying. A portion of it can be traced back to the Catholic church of the 1300s. A couple of priests, I suspect serious woman hating gays, wrote a book that theorized that since women had no control over the monthly cycle, they had no control over their sexuality. That meant there was all this uncontrolled sexuality just floating around in the air. So if your husband stopped off at the whore house, not really his fault. If he raped the neighbors daughter, not really his fault. If you got raped, not really your assailants fault. A man's only defense against all that uncontrolled sexuality floating around was lots of prayer and being close to God !!
Totally agree with you on that.
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Old February 18th, 2018, 04:50 PM   #97
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There comes a time in EVERY thread when most of us get to an impasse or start debating in a circuitous cycle. So the thread ends. You and I are never going to agree, Athena....so we must agree to disagree and move on.
But....I will spin this bottle one more time.

When you state this: We seem to [be] running a fever resulting in an overreaction to normal male behavior. I want to reach through the screen--all the way to Oregon--and shake you.....and shout "THIS IS NOT NORMAL MALE BEHAVIOR". "THIS IS NOT OVERREACTION." Okay--I think I'm out of steam now. LOL

But, I will point out: 1) Times HAVE changed. Media has changed. Comedy has changed.
2) Women are just SICK of the WHOLE thing and its high time--HIGH TIME to stand our ground.

Here's a saying that I love.

Strong women: May we know them. May we be them. May we raise them.
so true. this crap needs to stop
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Old February 21st, 2018, 08:10 AM   #98
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EXACTLY, BRAVO!!!
Do you live your life or do you live the life that another expects or wants you to live?
That is a choice people have to make.

I've a print on my wall that says... Don't walk in front of me, I may not want to follow.
Don't walk behind me, I may not want to lead.
Just walk by my side and be my friend.

Long ago forgot the name of the original author.
I don't remember talk of boundaries in the past, and it is impossible to discuss something when we don't have a word for it. When people are considering living together, they need to talk about boundaries and maybe why it can be hard to keep our boundaries.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 08:27 AM   #99
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I don't remember talk of boundaries in the past, and it is impossible to discuss something when we don't have a word for it. When people are considering living together, they need to talk about boundaries and maybe why it can be hard to keep our boundaries.
Indeed. There is no such thing as an "unspoken agreement or understanding."
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Old February 21st, 2018, 08:40 AM   #100
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YUP It's all part and parcel of what I was saying. A portion of it can be traced back to the Catholic church of the 1300s. A couple of priests, I suspect serious woman hating gays, wrote a book that theorized that since women had no control over the monthly cycle, they had no control over their sexuality. That meant there was all this uncontrolled sexuality just floating around in the air. So if your husband stopped off at the whore house, not really his fault. If he raped the neighbors daughter, not really his fault. If you got raped, not really your assailants fault. A man's only defense against all that uncontrolled sexuality floating around was lots of prayer and being close to God !!
Well, sex is mostly about uncontrollable hormones so I would say they are in a way right even though they did not provide a scientifically correct explanation of our sex drive. A secondary issue is how forgiving or condemning are we going to be? I lean towards being forgiving. But the Catholics have a paradoxical sexuality problem. They are very condemning of our sexuality and this comes from Judaism and is carried over in Islam, and the other side is, the priest wrote of being forgiving.

It seems your explanation begins with women having uncontrollable sexuality but most of your statements are about men having uncontrollable sexual urges. Now here we may find fault with the Bible because it does seem to suggest men would not have strong sexual urges if it were not for women causing them. This, of course, is a false understanding of their sex drive and this false belief lead to a lot of trouble and is a major reason for some rejecting Christianity.

Today we know the more we repress our sexuality, the stronger the urge can become. It is really too bad, religion made sex a bad thing and included masturbating as wrong. That really messes up everything and damages our ability to love ourselves and others.
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