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Old February 14th, 2018, 09:05 PM   #11
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That's what men do, try to get a woman into bed. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's the nature of the beast. Now if a woman says no, well that should be the end of it. Why pursue someone who doesn't want you? But you guys seem to want to penalize a guy for even trying to score with a particular woman. How much fun would it be if there was a dance but all the men were prohibited from asking a girl/woman to dance, let alone, God forbid, touch their shoulder, hips, or hand? It appears that that's where things are headed.

Maybe you women would be happier if all the men were gay and just left you ladies alone.

By the way I love women, I loved working with them, I put up with their sexual innuendos and groping, when I probably could have gone to upper management, quit and then have gotten a lawyer. However I didn't feel demeaned, dehumanized, etc., I guess you could say I took it like a man.
Regardless....I all ways treat a whore like a lady.........behind closed doors I move forward until she says no........then it's the lady thing again......I always could get a second date......Lets face it, women are in competition with women, that's the reason so much flesh is showing.

Last edited by imaginethat; February 15th, 2018 at 08:18 AM.
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Old February 14th, 2018, 09:14 PM   #12
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There comes a time in EVERY thread when most of us get to an impasse or start debating in a circuitous cycle. So the thread ends. You and I are never going to agree, Athena....so we must agree to disagree and move on.
But....I will spin this bottle one more time.

When you state this: We seem to [be] running a fever resulting in an overreaction to normal male behavior. I want to reach through the screen--all the way to Oregon--and shake you.....and shout "THIS IS NOT NORMAL MALE BEHAVIOR". "THIS IS NOT OVERREACTION." Okay--I think I'm out of steam now. LOL

But, I will point out: 1) Times HAVE changed. Media has changed. Comedy has changed.
2) Women are just SICK of the WHOLE thing and its high time--HIGH TIME to stand our ground.

Here's a saying that I love.

Strong women: May we know them. May we be them. May we raise them.
STAND YOUR GROUND, lower the hem of your dress and raise the collar..
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Old February 14th, 2018, 09:17 PM   #13
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There comes a time in EVERY thread when most of us get to an impasse or start debating in a circuitous cycle. So the thread ends. You and I are never going to agree, Athena....so we must agree to disagree and move on.
But....I will spin this bottle one more time.

When you state this: We seem to [be] running a fever resulting in an overreaction to normal male behavior. I want to reach through the screen--all the way to Oregon--and shake you.....and shout "THIS IS NOT NORMAL MALE BEHAVIOR". "THIS IS NOT OVERREACTION." Okay--I think I'm out of steam now. LOL

But, I will point out: 1) Times HAVE changed. Media has changed. Comedy has changed.
2) Women are just SICK of the WHOLE thing and its high time--HIGH TIME to stand our ground.

Here's a saying that I love.

Strong women: May we know them. May we be them. May we raise them.
I married a strong WOMAN/LADY, she dresses where she never has to worry about showing her arrzzzz nor her tits.....
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Old February 15th, 2018, 07:26 AM   #14
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Athena, I think you are confusing 'normal male desires' with 'acceptable male behavior'.

When I was young it was 'normal' for male bosses to put their arms around a female employee and press his fingers into the side of her breast. It was 'normal' because there wasn't a damn thing the woman could do about it if she wanted to keep her job. The fact that it was 'normal' in no way, shape or form made it 'acceptable'.

It's the 21st century and by now men should have evolved enough, be educated enough, and aware enough to know that touching someone else against their will is not acceptable.

As far as what it shown on television goes......the majority of programs are entertainment. Not instructions for how to live and behave. Emulating the characters we see on television is understandable in children, not in adults.
I have a problem with what you say because I am prone to touching people, and I don't want to live in fear of the consequences. Also, because I perceive males advances as a matter of nature, I think I am more concerned about why we think this is wrong.

Most important is I think we need to talk about these things, not just start destroying people's careers because the climate has changed. There needs to be an adjustment period and media most certainly is what tells us how men and women should be. I would say a problem is Hollywood defined our cultural norms without a female voice. And Hollywood did so with social agreement to end censorship!!! Was the end of censorship a good or bad thing? To have agreement we must talk, and pulling out of a discussion because one's point of view is not accepted without question is not the way to handle disagreements.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 07:28 AM   #15
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Only a man fool would touch a woman when she does not want it......
As I already said, I touch people. How are to know who is okay being touched and who is not?
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Old February 15th, 2018, 07:45 AM   #16
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I have a problem with what you say because I am prone to touching people, and I don't want to live in fear of the consequences. Also, because I perceive males advances as a matter of nature, I think I am more concerned about why we think this is wrong.

Most important is I think we need to talk about these things, not just start destroying people's careers because the climate has changed. There needs to be an adjustment period and media most certainly is what tells us how men and women should be. I would say a problem is Hollywood defined our cultural norms without a female voice. And Hollywood did so with social agreement to end censorship!!! Was the end of censorship a good or bad thing? To have agreement we must talk, and pulling out of a discussion because one's point of view is not accepted without question is not the way to handle disagreements.

It's not so much about the touching, as it is about the 'where' you touch and 'why' you touch.

I'm not prone to touching people, but I once grabbed a man from behind by both his upper arms and pulled him backwards a step. Why? Because he was about to walk out from behind a parked panel van right into the path of a car I had seen coming but he hadn't.

That's a great deal different than grabbing someone in a sexual manner.

The fact that the climate has changed does not mean that the sexual harassment and abuse that went unanswered years ago was acceptable.

If you're concerned about the consequences of touching people, that's easily solved. Don't do it.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 07:47 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by roastpork View Post
That's what men do, try to get a woman into bed. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's the nature of the beast. Now if a woman says no, well that should be the end of it. Why pursue someone who doesn't want you? But you guys seem to want to penalize a guy for even trying to score with a particular woman. How much fun would it be if there was a dance but all the men were prohibited from asking a girl/woman to dance, let alone, God forbid, touch their shoulder, hips, or hand? It appears that that's where things are headed.

Maybe you women would be happier if all the men were gay and just left you ladies alone.

By the way I love women, I loved working with them, I put up with their sexual innuendos and groping, when I probably could have gone to upper management, quit and then have gotten a lawyer. However I didn't feel demeaned, dehumanized, etc., I guess you could say I took it like a man.
I don't always like what you say, but this time I love what you said.

We have a problem with a man feeling personally rejected when the problem is the woman is defending her honor. We have a double standard. Until recently, men have not lost their honor because of normal sexual behavior, but women have. It was very clear when and where I grew up, "good girls don't and bad girls do" and men don't marry bad girls. Now add to that the possibility of getting pregnant and casual sex is out of the question! I swear, saying "no" is not just about not liking a guy. However, if the guy doesn't get that, then the no will become firmer and firmer.

I am not sure the difference is just a social difference? Having sex is, of course, hormonal and some of those hormones result in being attracted and wanting sex, and others result in bonding, and some result in women cheating on their husbands. I think the bonding might be more so for the female than the male. I have always heard this is so, that women are more likely to bond with one man and men are equipped to fertilize many flowers. Let us use science to understand such things. Like the act of sex can result in bonding, so can breastfeeding a baby increase a mother's bond with her baby.

Quote:
Breast-feeding DOES help mothers bond with babies - because it ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Breas...s--releases-lo...
Jul 18, 2008 - Scientists have discovered the secret behind how breastfeeding helps mothers bond with their babies. A study ... Breast-feeding DOES help mothers bond with babies - because it releases the 'love' hormone ... Oxytocin is attracting increasing interest from researchers investigating human behaviour.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 07:59 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by catus felis View Post
It's not so much about the touching, as it is about the 'where' you touch and 'why' you touch.

I'm not prone to touching people, but I once grabbed a man from behind by both his upper arms and pulled him backwards a step. Why? Because he was about to walk out from behind a parked panel van right into the path of a car I had seen coming but he hadn't.

That's a great deal different than grabbing someone in a sexual manner.

The fact that the climate has changed does not mean that the sexual harassment and abuse that went unanswered years ago was acceptable.

If you're concerned about the consequences of touching people, that's easily solved. Don't do it.
Oh no, I don't want to go into paranoia about touchy people. Now I did stop hugging people when I worked with mentally challenged people because there was a no-touch policy. I was also very glad that was a temporary job because I hated the atmosphere of paranoia. I also know schools have become very paranoid and it is obvious to me, this is the result of not trusting people, and why have we come to not trusting people? When I first began volunteering in a school, there was no problem with hugging a child, and this hugging is very good for people. At the senior center, hugging is also very good for people, and thankfully there we have a lot of trust at the senior center, so it has not become a problem. But in schools, the paranoia is extreme.

No, something is going on in our culture that is not healthy. We have lost trust and we are manifesting paranoia, and we are getting very mean. I don't want to go there.

I think there should be rules regarding our sexuality and improving understanding between men and women is a good thing, but tyranny, paranoia, and meanness are not good.
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Last edited by Athena; February 15th, 2018 at 08:03 AM.
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Old February 15th, 2018, 08:14 AM   #19
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Oh no, I don't want to go into paranoia about touchy people. Now I did stop hugging people when I worked with mentally challenged people because there was a no-touch policy. I was also very glad that was a temporary job because I hated the atmosphere of paranoia. I also know schools have become very paranoid and it is obvious to me, this is the result of not trusting people, and why have we come to not trusting people? When I first began volunteering in a school, there was no problem with hugging a child, and this hugging is very good for people. At the senior center, hugging is also very good for people, and thankfully there we have a lot of trust at the senior center, so it has not become a problem. But is schools, the paranoia is extreme.

No, something is going on in our culture that is not healthy. We have lost trust and we are manifesting paranoia, and we are getting very mean. I don't want to go there.
Some people simply do not like being touched by strangers. Or by certain people they know for that matter. I agree that a hug can be good for you. It can be comforting. It can make you feel better. When it is wanted. When it isn't, it's a totally different experience.

I think that what is going on in our culture is that sexual abuse has become a more open topic. We no longer refer to pedophiles as 'funny uncles' and simply keep kids away from them without telling them why any more and rape victims are no longer.....for the most part....treated as if they must have done something to deserve it.

I spent a few years working with mentally challenged adults myself. We also had a 'no touch' policy. It was more for our sake than the clients. Mentally challenges adults are like children. It's not difficult to get them to say whatever you want. Remember the McMartin Preschool case?
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Old February 15th, 2018, 08:16 AM   #20
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Regardless....I all ways treat a whore like a lady.........behind closed doors I move forward until she says no........then it's the lady thing again......I always could get a second date......Lets face it, women are in competition with women, that's the reason so much flesh is showing.
Now that is a good statement. Yes, we are all in competition with each other, just like peacocks strutting their feathers. And I think it is stupid as hell for a female to make herself as attractive to the male as she can, and then object to his natural response. It helps to wear clothes that say "no" and to conduct one's self in a business manner.

One more thing, being treated like a lady is very appreciated. That is respectful and makes a woman feel valued.
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Last edited by Athena; February 15th, 2018 at 08:20 AM.
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