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Old April 19th, 2018, 08:06 AM   #11
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No, corporations are composed of people. But unless that corporation as a whole polls its constituents on its political stances, the corporation responds to its ownership & management, not to its rank & file. & even then, because politics changes from day to day, that exemplary corporation would have to continue to poll its members on the issues of the day, as they arose. That kind of polling is possible now - but I still don't think it happens, except perhaps for WWF & some other issue-oriented organizations.

None of which TMK are aligned with the Koch brothers' web of funded organizations, for instance.
A guy that has studied law and lectured on law at a university level explained to me the reason for this doctrine of corporations being "a person" is to allow laws to be applicable to corporations without the need to completely duplicate the penal code and tort law changing "person" and its synonyms to "corporations" and its synonyms.

In his opinion, the US SC overapplied that concept. That hasn't happened in Canada.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 08:10 AM   #12
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Democracy fails because it is a failure. A strong state ran collective with obedience demanded of the people is what is needed. It is mans natural state to live in subjugation. A strong ruling political class to rule over and provide to each according to their need.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 09:10 AM   #13
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I agree that the Trump phenomenon indicates something's wrong with popular culture. But if you look back @ the Lincoln-Douglas debates, or the reading that young women were doing in the spinning mills (breaks & lunch, of course) in Massachusetts in the 1800s, you'd be amazed. People went to chautauquas & symposia & colloquia & followed some long & brilliant oral expositions.

& they didn't have the technical advantages we have to understand brain chemistry - PET scans & MRIs & so on. They made do by applying themselves - the educated read widely, learned foreign languages, & with printing presses for books & newspapers, anyone could follow the news & opinion of the day @ a reasonable cost.

Granted that there were fewer diversions then - no TV, radio - people played instruments, sang, put on readings & went to musical events @ bandstands, weather permitting. My impression is that the issues of the day - including politics - were much more discussed then, & people did the reading (or listened to someone read to them) to keep current.
The original purpose of public education was preparing the young for democracy and had nothing to do with vocational training beyond learning to read, write and do math and speaking. The old textbooks I have stressed the importance of speaking well and being literate meant being cultured. It meant instilling an interest in lifelong learning and a sense of responsibility for our institutions and government.

I want to stress the importance of that literacy because education for technology is the education of our enemy. You don't have to take my word for this. I will welcome anyone to review the books in my library and you can draw your conclusion. I am even more obsessed with this since learning the details of the fall of Rome. Education for technology has left us as uncultured as the barbarian soldier rulers of Rome and this culture conflict tore Rome apart! Athens and Rome were both consumed by war and spreading their area of control and let their cultures slip.

E.B. Castle wrote of how expanding the area of control changed Athens education and then focused education on technological correctness. This is a shift in power and authority. Who defines technologically correctness? It is not the individual in the position of responsibility, who is now cloned for positions in the Borg (the beast), the mechanical society.

Yes, what we are experiencing is a cultural phenomenon and when the book "The Twilight of American Culture" was written, the woman in the highest education position in the US had no understanding of the importance of liberal education and internalizing culture and authority with literacy and teaching the young how to think. I stress, how to think, not what to think. Education for technology is about what to think.

We have had education for group think, and group thinkers are prepared to follow. So there was Hitler and now there is Trump, as in Rome and Germany and now the US, citizens want strong leaders. What goes with this is hostility against overly cultured people like Obama. Give me someone rude and crude to follow. Someone who is strong and not a pansy like Obama.

Last edited by Athena; April 19th, 2018 at 09:16 AM.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 09:19 AM   #14
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One would assume by now that most people would understand that this country is a Republic, not a Democracy.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 09:25 AM   #15
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Democracy fails because it is a failure. A strong state ran collective with obedience demanded of the people is what is needed. It is mans natural state to live in subjugation. A strong ruling political class to rule over and provide to each according to their need.
Thank you for the fist and your comment. You have validated what I said about the lack of culture and citizens unprepared for democracy. Rome fell with that kind of thinking.

How do you understand power and being powerful? How about those rebellions in Rome that helped tear Rome apart? Were the rebels acting on a concept of power? Might we see the same resistance in the US? Will such demonstrations of power make us stronger?
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Old April 19th, 2018, 09:37 AM   #16
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One would assume by now that most people would understand that this country is a Republic, not a Democracy.
Thank you for making our ignorance so plainly obvious. The US has always had a republican form of government and it educated for a democratic culture. We understand democracy is the power of the people and in a republic, their power is expressed through elected representatives. Please read my quotes for some understanding of the importance of education to being a strong democratic republic.

Democracy is a political ideology coming out of philosophy and it is not listed in this forum's list of political ideology. Problems like this make it difficult to correct the problem of our ignorance. People in charge of everything, often do not understood democracy and what morals have to do with liberty and justice.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 09:40 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by hoosier88 View Post
No, corporations are composed of people. But unless that corporation as a whole polls its constituents on its political stances, the corporation responds to its ownership & management, not to its rank & file. & even then, because politics changes from day to day, that exemplary corporation would have to continue to poll its members on the issues of the day, as they arose. That kind of polling is possible now - but I still don't think it happens, except perhaps for WWF & some other issue-oriented organizations.

None of which TMK are aligned with the Koch brothers' web of funded organizations, for instance.

Yes they are a corporation may be comprised of 1 person or 1000 people or 1,000,000 people, or 10,000,000 people. it is the voice of 10s of 1000s of people. Medical Technicians, Technologists, Microbiologists, Pathologists and Histologists.



the ASCP is an corporation that to ensure Medical Laboratory and Pathology services are Competent, and accountable.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 09:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
The original purpose of public education was preparing the young for democracy and had nothing to do with vocational training beyond learning to read, write and do math and speaking. The old textbooks I have stressed the importance of speaking well and being literate meant being cultured. It meant instilling an interest in lifelong learning and a sense of responsibility for our institutions and government.

I want to stress the importance of that literacy because education for technology is the education of our enemy. You don't have to take my word for this. I will welcome anyone to review the books in my library and you can draw your conclusion. I am even more obsessed with this since learning the details of the fall of Rome. Education for technology has left us as uncultured as the barbarian soldier rulers of Rome and this culture conflict tore Rome apart! Athens and Rome were both consumed by war and spreading their area of control and let their cultures slip.

E.B. Castle wrote of how expanding the area of control changed Athens education and then focused education on technological correctness. This is a shift in power and authority. Who defines technologically correctness? It is not the individual in the position of responsibility, who is now cloned for positions in the Borg (the beast), the mechanical society.

...
Philosophy of education was ages ago. But as I recall, public education was tied into labor questions - there was never enough labor in the colonies & early US. (& it's still a question today, although mostly we're talking about unskilled labor now.) Anyway, basic education for everyone was sold as good for the labor force, & sparing children the horrors of working on highly mechanized & dangerous power equipment. This made labor pay rise, took children out of industrialized factories (not agriculture nor home enterprises, which were exempted), & quieted the goody-goodies who were agitating for more protective labor laws.

Instead of concentration of labor, the US went to industrialization - tractors, combines, power looms, power industrial equipment & processes. It paid off for us, @ least in the medium run.

High education - Harvard & so on - was mostly for young men (usually) whose families could afford the costs (with some scholarships for promising talent). That model produced Jefferson, Hamilton, T. Roosevelt, Adams & some other very bright & accomplished people - but it was sharply limited in terms of intake.

Public education - especially in the 1880s - 1920s - was trying to acculturate the children of recent immigrants - especially non-English speakers. That mostly worked, although the acculturation process took longer if there were no young children to send to school to serve as human bridges between the parents' home culture(s) & the US common culture.

I think the high rhetorical reasons for US publication education are still there - but they tend to still be overshadowed by economic & career considerations. All things being equal, I think adults tend to go to the work & avocations they want to - in the long run. In the short run, there's a lot of frustration & stress, as people try to work out their individual destiny.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 09:47 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by RNG View Post
A guy that has studied law and lectured on law at a university level explained to me the reason for this doctrine of corporations being "a person" is to allow laws to be applicable to corporations without the need to completely duplicate the penal code and tort law changing "person" and its synonyms to "corporations" and its synonyms.

In his opinion, the US SC overapplied that concept. That hasn't happened in Canada.
We should make it law that industry use the democratic model, not the autocratic model. That would bring industry under better control of the people, and it would far better for families and humanity in general.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 09:49 AM   #20
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This one?

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...

Yes, what we are experiencing is a cultural phenomenon and when the book "The Twilight of American Culture" was written, the woman in the highest education position in the US had no understanding of the importance of liberal education and internalizing culture and authority with literacy and teaching the young how to think.
...
Is that by Morris Berman, copyright 2000? Our library has it, if that's the right one, I'll take a look. Tks.
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