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Old June 8th, 2018, 09:52 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
Okay, but how did God make us, through evolution or from mud? To me, this is a very important point. I do not believe it is possible to have sane laws and a functioning democracy without basing our beliefs on science.

I have so many problems with religions because they are divisive. And religions creates a problem with understanding equality and justice. Especially the religions coming from the Hebrews are problematic. These people fought a war with the Greeks who would not respect their favoritism based on heritage, but the Greeks insisted on appointing people to office based on their merit instead of who their father was.

A social order based on heritage is not compatible with democracy, and Christians still live with this old thinking. It is in this thread. It is a failure to get people born with advantages are more likely to succeed than those who were not born with advantages. It is a failure to understand social justice means leveling the playing field and helping people requires more than prayers, and punishing people in inhumane prisons is not how to correct people. It is also an education problem because it stands in the way of education for good moral judgment and this leads to serious social problems.

Many civilizations, even very primitive ones, concluded they were superior to all others. Here is a primitive example

The Aztecs would be another primitive example.

The Hebrew, Jewish, Christian, Muslim are other examples from the past, and it is without question time to give up the idea that a god has favorite people. Giving up that idea is pretty important to democracy and world peace. The false belief leads to many wrongs, so I must speak against it. The advancement of humanity was not dependent on Christianity which prevented human advancement for hundreds of years after almost completely destroying the advances made by ancient civilizations. Our shift to science and improving the human conditions was really dependent on rediscovering Athens secular understanding of reality. Athens was the mother of western civilization and father of science and parent of democracy. The religions are not exactly compatible with democracy.
The golden rule, "treat others the way you want to be treated", has existed in some form or other, in almost every society that has or currently exists.

It is ALL we need to create viable, inclusive, and harmonious but not homogeneous societies. We could each thrive and celebrate our individuality while participating in the greater and highly democratic society.

Religion is the almost complete antithesis of this rule.
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Old June 8th, 2018, 10:06 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
A 7-year-old boy of color. However, Clara's sentiment added a concern about racism that was not intended in the OP.

I am learning as we go. My own understanding is changing as we go. And someone who sent me a bouquet that really helped me see things differently by addressing my feelings, without an argument or reasoning. I have come to see the child's feeling is simply a feeling that deserves acknowledgment. He wants there to be more students who look like him. That is a natural feeling with no reasoning attached to it. I think we have gotten so carried away with our thinking, that maybe all of us are having a problem dealing with feelings?

He also wants more candy too and is unhappy when I say no. We all need to learn to cope with life not being exactly as we want it, and sometimes it is just nice to receive a bouquet of flowers and a smilies throwing kisses and love. Unfortunately, I don't think the child would be as pleased with flowers as I am. But I think I need to acknowledge his feeling and perhaps look around the community and see if others are feeling the way?

I know doing workshops for people with medical/physical problems has helped me a lot because when I am with them, I feel normal. I don't feel normal when I am with people who do not have physical problems. I would like a find a support group for children in foster care and children of color or come up with a program myself for these children, so they can get acknowment and help each other cope.
A 7-year old is making that argument? Why am I having a hard time believing that?
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Old June 8th, 2018, 10:32 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Athena View Post
Why do you think you know what is true for other people when all you have to on is your limited life experience? You have a lot of explaining to do convince me you know any more than your own limited personal experience of life. I know damn well I did not have had the life I wanted and the males and social customs that made this so. I use the exclamation "damn" because it is not just about me, but also about my children, and their children and their children's children.

Self-center males have ruled our lives and they had done a lot of damage. the female perspective is very different and I look forward to when the female perspective is strong enough to make even more of a difference that it has so far.
There is a reason why the conservative idealogues of the early 20th century were fighting against extending the vote to women...and it was mostly because they feared women were not as supportive of militarism(they noticed that the peace movements which fought against the buildup to world war and went to jail for it, were mostly led by women); and even prior to women's suffrage, women were campaigning loudly and vigorously for more public spending to be diverted away from military and related causes, and to domestic priorities like providing medical care and education to working class people that were still mostly illiterate.

A long time ago...when I was more open to rightwing libertarian ideas and arguments, I was a subscriber to the usually reasonably sounding Cato Institute literature and podcasts. I never forgot that one of their short 20 minute lectures on the podcast was from some economist who correlated the close relationship between women voting and the size of government.

His main concern was that the normal pattern was for government spending to grow leading up to and during times of warfare, and then to drop back to normal after the war is over. But, give those women a vote, and they want money spent on domestic priorities instead! So, if you're on the ideological left, you see women(as a group) as allies/ if you're on the right, you see women as enemies who need to be muzzled even when they appear to be on your side!
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Old June 8th, 2018, 10:59 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
you've made four posts, and you're already calling people names?

don't expect to make it for long here, do you?
I'm sure it's not his first time on an open forum! My beef is with anyone new or old who repeats the same rightwing tropes and bullshit, like now that MLK has been safely in the ground for over half a century-distilling and synthesizing his work as rightwing libertarian-friendly...even for the likes of Glenn Beck to start invoking his name in speeches.

If rightwingers really don't know...and that's certainly possible since someone who's younger and grown up steeped in rightwing bullshit more than likely has no idea how or why Martin Luther King became a civil rights leader, and went after dangerous issues that even most black leaders wouldn't touch...and that's why his final speech before being assassinated was "Beyond Vietnam: a time to break the silence." And it's not a speech that today's rightwingers have heard or ever read before!

American Rhetoric: Martin Luther King, Jr: A Time to Break Silence (Declaration Against the Vietnam War)

If you read or listen to the speech, you can easily understand why J. Edgar Hoover wanted him shot!
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Old June 9th, 2018, 07:14 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by caconservative View Post
A 7-year old is making that argument? Why am I having a hard time believing that?
Wait what is it you do not believe? He said it is not fair that there are so many light-skinned students in school and not many who look like him. How would you interpret that?
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