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Old June 4th, 2018, 06:06 AM   #41
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What does that difference mean? Athena, maybe that's not the question we should be asking.
Maybe we should be asking 'what does our sameness mean'? It's an attitude adjustment.

Why not focus on our commonalities? We are more alike than unalike. We are all people. WE all have a story to share. We are all afraid at times. We are all "stuck" in our own skin.
We are all valuable. We all make mistakes.
We are all the same in ways that matter.
Clara, the child is asking why I am different and he is wondering what that means. His Mom is in complete denial of the color difference with her son and this is not helping. Denial isn't working. The kid is aware of a difference and he is trying to figure things out.

For all of you, it isn't all about racism. It is largely about wanting to be with people who look like us. If people bought housing simply on the desire to have neighbors who look they them, we would be segregated. This is a math fact. It has nothing to do with racism. Like the game Othello. The black and white piece can change the pattern of black and white pieces.

How many have been the minority in the room? How did it feel? My friend and I were once the only white people in a room full of dark people wanting to discuss the problems racism causes them and what they can do about it, and how they were going to have a black celebration and didn't know how to tell the blacks the food would be free without the whites thinking the food was free to white people. I assure you, no one felt comfortable in that room with two white people sitting in it.

Last edited by Athena; June 4th, 2018 at 06:14 AM.
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Old June 4th, 2018, 06:14 AM   #42
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Clara, the child is asking why I am different and he is wondering what that means. His Mom is in complete denial of the color difference with her son and this is not helping. Denial isn't working. The kids is aware of a difference and he is trying to figure things out.

For all of you, it isn't all about racism. It is largely about wanting to be with people who look like us. If people bought housing simply on the desire to have neighbors who look they them, we would be segregated. This is a math fact. It has nothing to do with racism. Like the game Othello. The black and white piece can change the pattern of black and white pieces.

How many have been the minority in the room? How did it feel? My friend and I were once the only white people in a room full of dark people wanting to discuss the problems racism causes them and what they can do about it, and how they were going to have a black celebration and didn't know how to tell the blacks the food would be free without the whites thinking the food was free to white people. I assure you, no one felt comfortable in that room with two white people sitting in it.
It is about no such thing - it is about the ludicrous way particular populations are taught to divide themselves up. Tell children the truth.
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Old June 4th, 2018, 06:31 AM   #43
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Schools are vicious holes, but it is a preparation for capitalism, living with these brainwashed bullies. The great thing is to see to it that nobody official shows the slightest sympathy with them, and, yes, see kids get good training in self-defence. I always found that a straight left to the eye was extremely useful - black eyes administered by someone much smaller did nothing for their street cred, even if you got the hell beaten out of you that once. Nowadays, though, there is a holy horror of physical 'violence'. That is why all the wet buggers have to have bang-bangs later.
Boxing brings back vivid memories to me. An uppercut is lethal and a jab pushes them back in a bare knuckle fist fight. Using an upper cut in a bare knuckle fight to make that punch lethal takes skill. Without going into detail aim for his adams apple and crush it with the uppercut and down he goes gasping for air. Then fall on top and drive your elbow in his ear to penetrate the brain. If that SOB had not kicked me in the shin that shit would have never happened.

edit: Wyoming just legalized professional bare knuckle fist fighting which had been illegal for over 100 years in every state of the union. Abraham Lincoln was a bare knuckle fist fighter who won cash prizes in the ring.
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Old June 4th, 2018, 06:35 AM   #44
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Nowhere like Memory Lane for a good punch-up! Of course, way back when, the teachers had better things to do than wander round playgrounds interfering with real education
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Old June 4th, 2018, 07:16 AM   #45
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That is unfortunate. Up until like 4th or 5th grade i was the darkest kid in my class and maybe the whole school. My kids went to a suburb school for a couple of years and then just decided that that same ol same ol was not so good so we moved back to the city.

On the flip side i think that we (the schools) are putting far to much emphasis on things like race these days unlike we have seen in society since the 50s and 60s. It is very sad IMO and not good for anyone.
I think I missed your post. I would not go back to the way things were because I think the prejudices lead to social injustice. But it was not all bad. Especially now and watching my great grandson struggle with his feelings about being in the minority. I have seen no signs of the ugly prejudice we once had, and I have seen a lot of hugging and encouragement in the school and I helped him the homework about being different and getting along. Still with all that, he wants to be with people who look like him and he doesn't know why. He just knows that is what he wants. I would put him in a school with a larger dark population and even move to a neighborhood with more dark people if I could. I would do anything I could to make him feel better.

I think although some of the prejudice in the past was very ugly and socially unjust, we were doing better as human beings in some ways. Being tribal is normal for humans, and we are killing that and this may be even harmful for human beings? We have gone too far in dehumanizing ourselves and I miss the human values we once had and our understanding that good manner matter.

Prejudices are not compatible with democracy and liberty. We need to rebalance, accepting our humanness and also learning values and virtues that are important to democracy. I really want our national talk to be about democracy, not racism. I think talk of racism has created as much of a problem as it has reduced the problems. Talk of racism has us bashing each other, instead of uniting us with values and virtues.
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Old June 4th, 2018, 07:23 AM   #46
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Oh yeah, already on top of all that and thank you for addressing the problem.

I have read other posts in this thread and what people are missing is the identity problem.

We are not born with our identities. We learn who we are and struggle to learn our position in society in relation to others. This seems to be the primary tasks of 7-year-olds. As a teacher you clearly have a better understanding of this than others. Perhaps some of the comments should be ignored as just not on topic?

This is on topic

Transitioning from "Me" to "Us"



Part of the problem is the mother is on SSI because of serious mental problems and this has seriously complicated the child's problems. Whenever he had trouble in school, so took him out of school. He could not do the transitioning until this year and considering how unstable his life has been, it is amazing he is doing so well. He is lucky to be in a school where the teachers hug the children often. From what I have observed, they are doing a good job of helping children transition from the egocentric me to the social me or us.

Now understanding this stage of development, the child is facing a few problems. He is in the minority. What does that mean? He has to figure that out. He is male. What does that mean? Children need their mothers and fathers as they go through this identity task, and this child does not have a father. Mom has had him call several light-skinned males Dad, but because Mom goes through men so fast, he hasn't been able to establish the quality of a son-father relationship he needs long enough for him to process what it means to be a male. Now we add to this problem, those men don't look like him. Mom will have nothing to do with people of color. Oh my, this is difficult. She saw herself as dark but she was not accepted as one of them. Our identities are not self-made, but have a lot do with how others react to us.

I really feel sorry for those born to be one gender who want to be the opposite gender. Just wanting to be a woman and dressing like one, does not assure being accepted as a woman. Same as being dark and wanting to be light skinned does not make it so. However, white folk can get tanned and that is cool. Any way discovering who we are has a lot to do with how others react to us.

So yeah, we can all be different. What does that difference mean? That is the question. He wants to know, who am I and where do I fit?
Seven is very young for identifying with ones self. What you are doing is so important. It seems to me you are keeping the communication doors wide open! Bless you for that.
I tend to get off topic easy enough. But only because I, like you, want what is best, but we're all so different when it comes to our situations. Yet they say we develop the same.
My daughter seemed to be doing well in school at 12 years, then she suddenly started having seizures. They were unpredictable. Her mouth would go numb, and she would drool. Turned out she had an AVM. She had radiation treatment and went bald on half her head.
My point, if I have one, is that the children were very cruel to her. The people she thought were friends were not. It's been four years of struggling to get her back. She completely lost faith in people. Her identity was lost as well. She is doing okay. Wanted a sex change for a while, cuz she was so out of touch with herself. It was very painful to watch her struggle. Buti kept the communication wide open. Even through the years she trusted No one. I think we've made it through the rough parts, ( and I barely scratched the surface). It's just hard. But these children are worth it.
All I know is that those kids in school will pass, but you will be there. He will go to a new school as he gets older and there will be more kids, hopefully some he can relate to. His success for now has a lot to do with you. Keep smiling
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Old June 4th, 2018, 07:32 AM   #47
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Nowhere like Memory Lane for a good punch-up! Of course, way back when, the teachers had better things to do than wander round playgrounds interfering with real education
I disagree with you. Human beings are not naturally pleasant creatures. We are little better than apes and we have created for ourselves a reality that demands we be very different from apes. Only through education can human beings be better than animals.

I am dealing with a child who behaves like a wild animal when he is upset. He has to learn better or he will be a burden to society until the day he dies. And I am not in favor of a police force trained in Israel, treating minorities as the minorities in Israel are treated. The black concern about police brutality and the unnecessary killing of their young is justified. That is not how to handle our struggle with being humans. In school and on the playground is where we must handle our struggle to be humans, different from animals.

Leaving moral training to the church is very problematic! Leaving moral training to parents who never had moral training is plain stupid! And our social problems have brought us to a human crisis. We better regain the wisdom of the past and return to education for well-rounded individual growth and citizenship. That was the original purpose of public education until world wars brought us to education for technology for military and industrial purpose and we left moral training to the church.
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Old June 4th, 2018, 08:10 AM   #48
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Seven is very young for identifying with ones self. What you are doing is so important. It seems to me you are keeping the communication doors wide open! Bless you for that.
I tend to get off topic easy enough. But only because I, like you, want what is best, but we're all so different when it comes to our situations. Yet they say we develop the same.
My daughter seemed to be doing well in school at 12 years, then she suddenly started having seizures. They were unpredictable. Her mouth would go numb, and she would drool. Turned out she had an AVM. She had radiation treatment and went bald on half her head.
My point, if I have one, is that the children were very cruel to her. The people she thought were friends were not. It's been four years of struggling to get her back. She completely lost faith in people. Her identity was lost as well. She is doing okay. Wanted a sex change for a while, cuz she was so out of touch with herself. It was very painful to watch her struggle. Buti kept the communication wide open. Even through the years she trusted No one. I think we've made it through the rough parts, ( and I barely scratched the surface). It's just hard. But these children are worth it.
All I know is that those kids in school will pass, but you will be there. He will go to a new school as he gets older and there will be more kids, hopefully some he can relate to. His success for now has a lot to do with you. Keep smiling
Oh my god yes! School children can be vicious animals and if teachers trained for education for technology, think they should not have to waste time on poor students, and behavior problems, we create for ourselves a national crisis, and when a nation is armed as the US is armed, this crisis in human development is a global crisis! Look at some of the posts. They are no better than the vicious children on the playground. And these people are armed with nukes and million dollar bombs and killing robots. And only our teachers can make us better.

Ah, that sex thing. It is a sign of our times. Personally, I am very annoyed by it. What really pisses me off is the notion that this sexual confusion is an independent internal thing. For a handful of people that is so, but for the majority, the sexual confusion is a reaction to the times. It is harder for a white person to be black and it is even harder for a black person to be light-skinned, but both black and white people have tried to look like the opposite race. I think when our differences become an issue, people want to cross the fence and experience being the opposite of what they are. Just be aware that it could be social pressures causing your daughter to question he sexual identity.

Anyone want to vote for the Muppets? They were a wonderful answer to the reality of our differences.

Ah- I told everyone I was not going to continue with the child once school lets out. What you said makes me think I better not bail out? Oh my, I am old and in my day we just spanked the misbehaving child and went forward from there. I have learned to the think of the bad behavior as an emotional problem, not exactly a behavior problem, but when he pushes me too far, I revert back to the old school. You know, "to hell with how you feel, this is how you behave and that is not how you behave." In a way that is being in the minority. I want the world I remember and it is not easy for me to transition into the touchy-feely world of today. We used whips and punches and guns to get what we want. Now we use bombs and economic warfare and ads that sell us products and candidates using the science of psychology. We could be entering a new golden age or we could be self-destructing. For sure it is a pleasure to have meaningful discussion with intelligent and caring people.
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Old June 4th, 2018, 08:29 AM   #49
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Boxing brings back vivid memories to me. An uppercut is lethal and a jab pushes them back in a bare knuckle fist fight. Using an upper cut in a bare knuckle fight to make that punch lethal takes skill. Without going into detail aim for his adams apple and crush it with the uppercut and down he goes gasping for air. Then fall on top and drive your elbow in his ear to penetrate the brain. If that SOB had not kicked me in the shin that shit would have never happened.

edit: Wyoming just legalized professional bare knuckle fist fighting which had been illegal for over 100 years in every state of the union. Abraham Lincoln was a bare knuckle fist fighter who won cash prizes in the ring.
I would bet the none fighters who changed the law are ignorant of how lethal the bare hand can be. If such a change in the law were discussed in my state, I would write a letter to the editor and inform the people. I would not know the life saving benefit of gloves if you had posted that information.

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Schools are vicious holes, but it is a preparation for capitalism, living with these brainwashed bullies. The great thing is to see to it that nobody official shows the slightest sympathy with them, and, yes, see kids get good training in self-defence. I always found that a straight left to the eye was extremely useful - black eyes administered by someone much smaller did nothing for their street cred, even if you got the hell beaten out of you that once. Nowadays, though, there is a holy horror of physical 'violence'. That is why all the wet buggers have to have bang-bangs later.
I find the explanation of vicious schools being a preparation for capitalism interesting. This is not so in all countries and as we know the countries with the happiest ranking for happiness are socialist. At least one of there countries gives all the children equal education and mixes all the children and especially focuses on them learning to get along with each other.

Might we question if the US is still pretty barbaric and lacking in culture? Might some of our problems as individuals and socially, but the result of education for vicious competitiveness and capitalism? For sure many think our education is too liberal and a threat to their values. Hum, a link I posted explained the child's need to transition from the ego-centered me, to the social me and unity with others.

This thread has gotten very interesting.
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Old June 5th, 2018, 05:43 AM   #50
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I disagree with you. Human beings are not naturally pleasant creatures. We are little better than apes and we have created for ourselves a reality that demands we be very different from apes. Only through education can human beings be better than animals.

I am dealing with a child who behaves like a wild animal when he is upset. He has to learn better or he will be a burden to society until the day he dies. And I am not in favor of a police force trained in Israel, treating minorities as the minorities in Israel are treated. The black concern about police brutality and the unnecessary killing of their young is justified. That is not how to handle our struggle with being humans. In school and on the playground is where we must handle our struggle to be humans, different from animals.

Leaving moral training to the church is very problematic! Leaving moral training to parents who never had moral training is plain stupid! And our social problems have brought us to a human crisis. We better regain the wisdom of the past and return to education for well-rounded individual growth and citizenship. That was the original purpose of public education until world wars brought us to education for technology for military and industrial purpose and we left moral training to the church.
Well, I don't disagree with you, not about most of that. What I disagreed about was the notion that it was 'natural' to identify with shade of skin colour as a determinant, but it isn't - that is just the product of sick racist society, and ought to be opposed. For boys, the good old way was with your fists, but I fear that has been largely shut down in favour of the bullies. The other way I always used was quickness of the tongue, but that, alas, is harder to teach. The other great thing is gang culture: when Germans were really hated here, we had a German boy in our class and, for political reasons, let him into our gang, at which point all bullying stopped dead. Later, and more educated, we became an Anarchist Club and stopped it in a Secondary School for over a year! Never despair of what boyish bloody-mindedness can lead to!
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