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Old June 5th, 2018, 06:49 AM   #51
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It is about no such thing - it is about the ludicrous way particular populations are taught to divide themselves up. Tell children the truth.
I think it is more personal than that. He wants to know which great grandson I like best. I think that kind of talk came from his mother and also I am quite sure such concern is common to all of us. I remember my kids going through thinking I loved the other one best, and my stupid sister didn't help with her comments that I did love one of them more than the other. People just do this if they are different colors or not. Baby birds in a nest will compete for the food. We are animals and learn to be humans.

I like what Avlis said about God making us different but all the same as flowers are different and the same. I think I need to have that talk with the child. And I remember my grandmother's generation of teachers thought their task was to help a child discover his/her own talents and interest, and what went with that is believing we all have a purpose and place that is unique to who we are. That can backfire when it goes with prejudice, but prejudice is not scientifically supported. We can take the good of the past and improve on it.

Perhaps the truth we need is humans are not so different from animals. However, because we think, we don't just push our brothers and sisters out of the nest, but we think about it and worry about it being the one pushed out, or the rightness or wrong of pushing the others out. We stew in our thinking and turn to one another for ideas.
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Old June 5th, 2018, 08:00 AM   #52
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Well, I don't disagree with you, not about most of that. What I disagreed about was the notion that it was 'natural' to identify with shade of skin colour as a determinant, but it isn't - that is just the product of sick racist society, and ought to be opposed. For boys, the good old way was with your fists, but I fear that has been largely shut down in favour of the bullies. The other way I always used was quickness of the tongue, but that, alas, is harder to teach. The other great thing is gang culture: when Germans were really hated here, we had a German boy in our class and, for political reasons, let him into our gang, at which point all bullying stopped dead. Later, and more educated, we became an Anarchist Club and stopped it in a Secondary School for over a year! Never despair of what boyish bloody-mindedness can lead to!
Prejudice is natural. We are prejudice because we are animals and our brains are not as good as we think they are. Our brains are really very limited. For example, we are doing good if we can remember the names of 700 people and a fact or two about them. What is really insane is living in larger groups. To live in large groups our brains take many shortcuts and prejudice is a mental shortcut.

Your story is about how prejudice works and what can be done about it. For instinctive survival reasons, we must determine who is one of us and who is not? It is amazing to me how humans create notions of who is one of us and who is not. It blows my mind when people who look the same are killing each other because they created the notion of belonging to different groups, such as being a German in a group that hates Germans. How about the Irish killing those who side with the British, or Jews in Israel segregating everyone who is not a Jew, or Shia and Sunni killing each other. People are pulling those differences out of their ass and creating conditions of war. If we were apes this behavior is about defending a territory and food supply for those known to be members of the group, from those other apes who are not members of this group. This is instinctive animal behavior, but we think we have "good reasons" for behaving this way.

In your story, the group gets to know the individual personally and the individual is then accepted into the group. This also happens with apes. Lone apes have a serious survival problem and from time to time they get separated from their troop and must find another one. This can happen if they lack social skills and get thrown out. They can learn from their mistakes and when approaching a new troop they stay in sight of the others but keep their distance. They use body language to communicate they mean no harm and want to be accepted. Over a period of time, they can be accepted by the new troop. This, by the way, is a hell of a lot easier if one is female. All she needs is to be an attractive female. A male is more apt to be seen as an unwanted competitor.

If we threw our bibles in the river and came to know ourselves as animals we would have a much better chance of resolving our problems with reason. Let us know the truth and work with it.

Forced desegregation created problems but in some cases, it leads to blacks and whites knowing each other as individuals and seeing each other as the same, instead of as different. The good of this opportunity is destroyed when people of color refuse to accept the language of the majority and insist on accentuating their differences and develop a culture based on hate. As a woman, I feel very threatened by this because I know the act of sex can be an expression of hate. Rape and war go hand in hand, just like ganging up on the person who is different is part of nature.

Last edited by Athena; June 5th, 2018 at 08:04 AM.
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Old June 5th, 2018, 08:30 AM   #53
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Prejudice is natural. We are prejudice because we are animals and our brains are not as good as we think they are. Our brains are really very limited. For example, we are doing good if we can remember the names of 700 people and a fact or two about them. What is really insane is living in larger groups. To live in large groups our brains take many shortcuts and prejudice is a mental shortcut.

Your story is about how prejudice works and what can be done about it. For instinctive survival reasons, we must determine who is one of us and who is not? It is amazing to me how humans create notions of who is one of us and who is not. It blows my mind when people who look the same are killing each other because they created the notion of belonging to different groups, such as being a German in a group that hates Germans. How about the Irish killing those who side with the British, or Jews in Israel segregating everyone who is not a Jew, or Shia and Sunni killing each other. People are pulling those differences out of their ass and creating conditions of war. If we were apes this behavior is about defending a territory and food supply for those known to be members of the group, from those other apes who are not members of this group. This is instinctive animal behavior, but we think we have "good reasons" for behaving this way.

In your story, the group gets to know the individual personally and the individual is then accepted into the group. This also happens with apes. Lone apes have a serious survival problem and from time to time they get separated from their troop and must find another one. This can happen if they lack social skills and get thrown out. They can learn from their mistakes and when approaching a new troop they stay in sight of the others but keep their distance. They use body language to communicate they mean no harm and want to be accepted. Over a period of time, they can be accepted by the new troop. This, by the way, is a hell of a lot easier if one is female. All she needs is to be an attractive female. A male is more apt to be seen as an unwanted competitor.

If we threw our bibles in the river and came to know ourselves as animals we would have a much better chance of resolving our problems with reason. Let us know the truth and work with it.

Forced desegregation created problems but in some cases, it leads to blacks and whites knowing each other as individuals and seeing each other as the same, instead of as different. The good of this opportunity is destroyed when people of color refuse to accept the language of the majority and insist on accentuating their differences and develop a culture based on hate. As a woman, I feel very threatened by this because I know the act of sex can be an expression of hate. Rape and war go hand in hand, just like ganging up on the person who is different is part of nature.
Wouldn't that be racism? I think it is natural to *notice the differences in our skin, but to prejudge a person by their skin takes learning.
We've been misusing these two words for almost a decade, and I can't figure out why, or how they got confused. I'm racist in the sense that I acknowledge the difference between myself and others, but I don't have a preconceived notion of how others should act, or behave, therefore I have no prejudice.

Last edited by Kate; June 5th, 2018 at 08:36 AM. Reason: Forgot to add last part.
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Old June 5th, 2018, 08:35 AM   #54
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No no, we should hand out participant ribbons so everyone *feels equal no matter how hard they try! In the event your skin color differs from another's, and you put forth extra effort, they wouldn't want you to stand out. If you can think outside the box, they don't want you to realize your own capabilities.
Everything should be fair and equal no matter your age, effort, intelligence, ability, or ingenuity. No losers here! No winners, no changers, no real progress, but no losers... That's the important thing. UGH!
And later in life they begin to expect a paycheck just for showing up to work, does not matter if they do what they are hired to do while they are at work, they showed up, they also want the raises that the employees get that did their work for them as well as their own work.
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Old June 6th, 2018, 03:28 AM   #55
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I think it is more personal than that. He wants to know which great grandson I like best. I think that kind of talk came from his mother and also I am quite sure such concern is common to all of us. I remember my kids going through thinking I loved the other one best, and my stupid sister didn't help with her comments that I did love one of them more than the other. People just do this if they are different colors or not. Baby birds in a nest will compete for the food. We are animals and learn to be humans.

I like what Avlis said about God making us different but all the same as flowers are different and the same. I think I need to have that talk with the child. And I remember my grandmother's generation of teachers thought their task was to help a child discover his/her own talents and interest, and what went with that is believing we all have a purpose and place that is unique to who we are. That can backfire when it goes with prejudice, but prejudice is not scientifically supported. We can take the good of the past and improve on it.

Perhaps the truth we need is humans are not so different from animals. However, because we think, we don't just push our brothers and sisters out of the nest, but we think about it and worry about it being the one pushed out, or the rightness or wrong of pushing the others out. We stew in our thinking and turn to one another for ideas.
Competition to be 'loved' belongs to a sick society: we had none of it in our family, my father and his sister having suffered that filth from the grandmother who brought them up. It is child abuse and should carry a long sentence. And only cuckoos push others out of nests.
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Old June 6th, 2018, 03:34 AM   #56
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Prejudice is natural. We are prejudice because we are animals and our brains are not as good as we think they are. Our brains are really very limited. For example, we are doing good if we can remember the names of 700 people and a fact or two about them. What is really insane is living in larger groups. To live in large groups our brains take many shortcuts and prejudice is a mental shortcut.

Your story is about how prejudice works and what can be done about it. For instinctive survival reasons, we must determine who is one of us and who is not? It is amazing to me how humans create notions of who is one of us and who is not. It blows my mind when people who look the same are killing each other because they created the notion of belonging to different groups, such as being a German in a group that hates Germans. How about the Irish killing those who side with the British, or Jews in Israel segregating everyone who is not a Jew, or Shia and Sunni killing each other. People are pulling those differences out of their ass and creating conditions of war. If we were apes this behavior is about defending a territory and food supply for those known to be members of the group, from those other apes who are not members of this group. This is instinctive animal behavior, but we think we have "good reasons" for behaving this way.

In your story, the group gets to know the individual personally and the individual is then accepted into the group. This also happens with apes. Lone apes have a serious survival problem and from time to time they get separated from their troop and must find another one. This can happen if they lack social skills and get thrown out. They can learn from their mistakes and when approaching a new troop they stay in sight of the others but keep their distance. They use body language to communicate they mean no harm and want to be accepted. Over a period of time, they can be accepted by the new troop. This, by the way, is a hell of a lot easier if one is female. All she needs is to be an attractive female. A male is more apt to be seen as an unwanted competitor.

If we threw our bibles in the river and came to know ourselves as animals we would have a much better chance of resolving our problems with reason. Let us know the truth and work with it.

Forced desegregation created problems but in some cases, it leads to blacks and whites knowing each other as individuals and seeing each other as the same, instead of as different. The good of this opportunity is destroyed when people of color refuse to accept the language of the majority and insist on accentuating their differences and develop a culture based on hate. As a woman, I feel very threatened by this because I know the act of sex can be an expression of hate. Rape and war go hand in hand, just like ganging up on the person who is different is part of nature.
We didn't get to know Franz personally. 'The Germans' had been bombing and killing us all, according to the tories, but we knew it was the nazis . and took appropriate action to help the son of a working man. We are very special animals, and it is silly to pretend to be primitive ones because it benefits the rich to make racist mugs of us. The great trick is to learn sensible principles and always act on them, in my view anyway.
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Old June 6th, 2018, 09:34 AM   #57
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We didn't get to know Franz personally. 'The Germans' had been bombing and killing us all, according to the tories, but we knew it was the nazis . and took appropriate action to help the son of a working man. We are very special animals, and it is silly to pretend to be primitive ones because it benefits the rich to make racist mugs of us. The great trick is to learn sensible principles and always act on them, in my view anyway.
Oh my yes, that is the trick. And for sure turning people against each other does benefit a few and harms the majority.

The question is how do we bring out the best in each other? I think respecting each other having good manners is vital, but so many do not agree with this. Especially now. I think our TV shows and the change in education has to lead to serious social problems. I just heard the suicide rate has gone up. We must figure out how to stop all this pain and make life good. Humans have the potential to make life better or worse and we need to figure out how this works.
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Old June 6th, 2018, 09:44 AM   #58
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Competition to be 'loved' belongs to a sick society: we had none of it in our family, my father and his sister having suffered that filth from the grandmother who brought them up. It is child abuse and should carry a long sentence. And only cuckoos push others out of nests.
I am sorry there is such a grandmother in your family. I have heard of favoritism occurring in some families and it is crazy. We see movies where people tell a child he needs to be more like a brother, and we can see the pain this causes.

I want to thank you and others for helping me think of all these things and helping me discover what I want to tell my great-grandson. You all are making a difference.

Last night the child listened intensely while I told him about how I wished I didn't have such hairy arms, and how it was a problem for me when I was young and how my mother helped be okay with having hairy arms. I saw this as an example of being different and learning to be okay with being different. I was glad he listened to my story as though it interested him.

I think I need to talk more about favoritism and why it isn't right. I think we can look at flowers and talk about how they are more beautiful because they are different.
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Old June 6th, 2018, 11:02 AM   #59
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I am liberal. I worry less about social justice bankrupting us, than about military spending bankrupting us. If we can afford what we pay for weapons, surely we can afford a decent standard of living for everyone. But we do need to practice birth control.

Welfare checks are distributed throughout the community. Everyone benefits from the welfare check and the gross national product is a count of how many times a dollar changes hands. However, those million dollar bombs are not benefiting the communities economy. They are equal to burning money.
Those million dollar bombs are what enables you to live free, to have the ability to express your thoughts and religious beliefs on a public forum without the fear of government repression. You owe your freedom to our Military and it's ability to keep evil in check, an ability we were slowly losing under the Obama Administration.

Last edited by roastpork; June 6th, 2018 at 11:09 AM.
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Old June 6th, 2018, 11:14 AM   #60
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And later in life they begin to expect a paycheck just for showing up to work, does not matter if they do what they are hired to do while they are at work, they showed up, they also want the raises that the employees get that did their work for them as well as their own work.
It use to be the slacker was the minority. And frowned upon severely.
Today it is the norm, and the person that puts in the effort is frowned upon. And when they receive a raise or acknowledgment, others are jealous instead of happy for them. Or they are expected to do the work of the others. And the little ass kisser gets the perks.
You know who's going to rebuttle this...
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