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Old June 15th, 2014, 06:29 AM   #11
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You also have to understand that capitalism is also a failure
Wrong.
You really drink the pinko Kool-aid heartily.
Anyhow, are you calling what we have in the USA "capitalism"?
In your world view everything Western is bad, wrong, and evil in spite of the fact that you benefit from the fruits of the Western way.
Climb out of your ignorant hole in the ground and get educated about the world.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 06:42 AM   #12
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I believe you are confused. If you turn over all responsibility to the state they will take more and more. Socialism cannot survive without crony capitalism. The people are but pawns in both games.


com·mu·nism noun \ˈkäm-yə-ˌni-zəm, -yü-\
: a way of organizing a society in which the government owns the things that are used to make and transport products (such as land, oil, factories, ships, etc.) and there is no privately owned property


Full Definition of COMMUNISM

1
a :* a theory advocating elimination of private property
b :* a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2
capitalized
a :* a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
b :* a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production
c :* a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably
Unfourtunately you have the wrong definition of Communism. Actual Communism is stateless, classless, and currency-less; there is no government, bank notes or working+rich class in real Communism. Granted, that is a ways off, nobody knows that better than those who advocate it, but Rome wasn't built in a day. I'll likely be long dead before something like that ever becomes a viable option.

You are fair in saying that giving a small elite totalitarian power can eventually lead to opressive regimes- and that was one of the major faults of "Communist States" (actually they were authoritarian socialisms and stalinisims). No level headed socialist that I know of is promoting a Stalinism, it's disengenious to say so. Rather many, myself included, advocate a transparent democratic socialism with welfare statist policies. Completely transparent, public voted + funded publicised (rather than privatized) industries well regulated for the good of society and completely removed from the profit motive.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 06:42 AM   #13
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Wrong.
You really drink the pinko Kool-aid heartily.
Anyhow, are you calling what we have in the USA "capitalism"?
In your world view everything Western is bad, wrong, and evil in spite of the fact that you benefit from the fruits of the Western way.
Climb out of your ignorant hole in the ground and get educated about the world.

No silly fool we have not had anything close to capitalism for some time.

No it's tainted, skewed by greed and corruption allowed to carry on by the blindness of the sheeple who trade in their 45+ hours for a flat screen and lab top.

The pot calls the kettle.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 06:46 AM   #14
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Unfourtunately you have the wrong definition of Communism. Actual Communism is stateless, classless, and currency-less; there is no government, bank notes or working+rich class in real Communism. Granted, that is a ways off, nobody knows that better than those who advocate it, but Rome wasn't built in a day. I'll likely be long dead before something like that ever becomes a viable option.

You are fair in saying that giving a small elite totalitarian power can eventually lead to opressive regimes- and that was one of the major faults of "Communist States" (actually they were authoritarian socialisms and stalinisims). No level headed socialist that I know of is promoting a Stalinism, it's disengenious to say so. Rather many, myself included, advocate a transparent democratic socialism with welfare statist policies. Completely transparent, public voted + funded publicised (rather than privatized) industries well regulated for the good of society and completely removed from the profit motive.
an·ar·chism noun \ˈa-nər-ˌki-zəm, -ˌnär-\
: a belief that government and laws are not necessary

Full Definition of ANARCHISM

1
:* a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups
2
:* the advocacy or practice of anarchistic principles
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Old June 15th, 2014, 06:50 AM   #15
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I am a big boy and can take care of myself, thank you.
Since you are, by your own admission, still a child and need a responsible parent to take care of you, find one, just don't force that on me and mine.
There are countries you could defect to instead of forcing your evil on me.
Or you could grow up.
Socialism is pure evil and no amount of propaganda or BS can change that fact.
It has failed over and over and over again, everywhere and everytime it has been forced on people.
FAILED!
People end up living nasty, desperate lives.
Evil.
So, STFU with your commie bullshit, kid.
Nobody was talking about just you, you pig headed narcissist. "You" denoted society, all people.

Ironic that you talk about propaganda and Kool aid when you've never demonstrated how Socialism will fail us. The one who is demonstrating that they've drank the Kool aid is you- you equate any attempt to understand an alterior position with "propaganda and bullshit" because you have no idea what is or how it can solve our problems in the post modern world. No, you just sit your ass down on that there recliner, take a sip from your bud light can and listen to O'Reilly and Hannity and the cast of Fox News tell you about how the whole world is out to get you, that we just want to destroy America.

In good time the ignorant fools like you will be long gone and then we can finally have a reasonable conversation on humanities future.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 06:53 AM   #16
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an·ar·chism noun \ˈa-nər-ˌki-zəm, -ˌnär-\
: a belief that government and laws are not necessary

Full Definition of ANARCHISM

1
:* a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups
2
:* the advocacy or practice of anarchistic principles
...what's the point? Communism and Anarchism are similar- it's just that Communism advocates a society where that free association of individuals involves voluntarily collectivizing resources for all within the community and using newfound overproduction to give to each according to his need and taking from each according to his ability.

Like I said, a long ways off, but not impossible and certainly a better alternative.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 07:06 AM   #17
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...what's the point? Communism and Anarchism are similar- it's just that Communism advocates a society where that free association of individuals involves voluntarily collectivizing resources for all within the community and using newfound overproduction to give to each according to his need and taking from each according to his ability.

Like I said, a long ways off, but not impossible and certainly a better alternative.
You and I are, and have been, on the different pages of the same book since we met here. I bring up the "Webster" definitions so the masses can understand the base of our conversation.

I wish for the end of the state, but I would stand by a true libertarian. Socialism IMO gives over to much power to the state who is in bed with the banks, corperations and elite to sit good with me.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 07:19 AM   #18
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You and I are, and have been, on the different pages of the same book since we met here. I bring up the "Webster" definitions so the masses can understand the base of our conversation.

I wish for the end of the state, but I would stand by a true libertarian. Socialism IMO gives over to much power to the state who is in bed with the banks, corperations and elite to sit good with me.
All good socialists hope to get rid of the American government as it exists today. You're wrong in saying that I want to give over power to a state in bed with big business, that is the anti-thesis of my statement. I likely hold more vitriol for those parasitic sacks of shit then anyone on this board. If I had my way the Demopublicans and Wall Street alike would be in an international court for charges of crimes against humanity.

No, I would like to see a government by the people and for the people for once in human history, and I want that to be coupled with an socioeconomic system that is by and for the people as well.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 07:22 AM   #19
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All good socialists hope to get rid of the American government as it exists today. You're wrong in saying that I want to give over power to a state in bed with big business, that is the anti-thesis of my statement. I likely hold more vitriol for those parasitic sacks of shit then anyone on this board. If I had my way the Demopublicans and Wall Street alike would be in an international court for charges of crimes against humanity.

No, I would like to see a government by the people and for the people for once in human history, and I want that to be coupled with an socioeconomic system that is by and for the people as well.
I never said that is what "you" want but that is what how progressive socialism is moving in our country and the world over. Crony capitalist controll over a socialized government. Not good.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 07:30 AM   #20
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All good socialists hope to get rid of the American government as it exists today. You're wrong in saying that I want to give over power to a state in bed with big business, that is the anti-thesis of my statement. I likely hold more vitriol for those parasitic sacks of shit then anyone on this board. If I had my way the Demopublicans and Wall Street alike would be in an international court for charges of crimes against humanity.

No, I would like to see a government by the people and for the people for once in human history, and I want that to be coupled with an socioeconomic system that is by and for the people as well.
A economic system that is by and for the people is one where each individual is free to make his own economic decisions. That system is also known as capitalism. A system of capitalism where the only role of government is to protect individuals from force and fraud.
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