Political Forums  

Go Back   Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Political Ideologies > Socialism

Socialism Socialism Forum - Political Philosophy Forum


Thanks Tree48Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 15th, 2014, 07:30 AM   #21
Banned
 
Beasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabcat View Post
I never said that is what "you" want but that is what how progressive socialism is moving in our country and the world over. Crony capitalist controll over a socialized government. Not good.
Sure, but socialism isn't mutually exclusive to that implementation. A good imementation would probably involve a revolution. I know coming from an Anti-military pacifist that seems utterly hypocritical, and I don't like that fact one bit, but I can't deny the proper implementation of such a benevolent system involves restructuring the current government from the ground up. I pray that it doesn't need to be violent, that people can collectivise, march down to Washington and surround the capital, and politely demand the puppets leave and that they'll comply, but who knows whether or not that's a stretch.
Beasty is offline  
Old June 15th, 2014, 07:42 AM   #22
Banned
 
Beasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
A economic system that is by and for the people is one where each individual is free to make his own economic decisions. That system is also known as capitalism. A system of capitalism where the only role of government is to protect individuals from force and fraud.
No, an economic system by and for the people is one where people's needs are adequately met through the proper allocation of resources and production.

Don't mistake this for a system where a state tells you what to buy, how to think and who to associate with- that's not a benevolent system. A state in this case is a central organizer, a planner for a big project that everyone acknowledges is needed. For instance, we have massive transportation industry issues in America, and that boils down to a lot of factors. For the sake of argument, let's say we acknowledge that the private ownership of motor vehicles is expensive and inefficient. Perhaps a public transportation system that is sanitary, ecologically friendly, safe, and expansive can meet our needs better? Then the state helps organize a public program that is approved by the people for XX years at XX tax rate, so that the needs of people are met.

It's just a loose example of course.
Beasty is offline  
Old June 15th, 2014, 08:44 AM   #23
Wall-crawler
 
webguy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 14,279
socialism vs crony capitalism?

straw man, false dichotomy. crony capitalism is socialism.
Thanks from Bill and NowhereMan
webguy4 is offline  
Old June 15th, 2014, 09:02 AM   #24
Wall-crawler
 
webguy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 14,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
A economic system that is by and for the people is one where each individual is free to make his own economic decisions. That system is also known as capitalism. A system of capitalism where the only role of government is to protect individuals from force and fraud.
see, I knew we could be buddies.
webguy4 is offline  
Old June 15th, 2014, 09:08 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
Nwolfe35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 14,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beasty View Post
No, an economic system by and for the people is one where people's needs are adequately met through the proper allocation of resources and production.

Don't mistake this for a system where a state tells you what to buy, how to think and who to associate with- that's not a benevolent system. A state in this case is a central organizer, a planner for a big project that everyone acknowledges is needed. For instance, we have massive transportation industry issues in America, and that boils down to a lot of factors. For the sake of argument, let's say we acknowledge that the private ownership of motor vehicles is expensive and inefficient. Perhaps a public transportation system that is sanitary, ecologically friendly, safe, and expansive can meet our needs better? Then the state helps organize a public program that is approved by the people for XX years at XX tax rate, so that the needs of people are met.

It's just a loose example of course.
And who is "everyone" that gets to decide what is "needed"?

What happens when 50.01% of the people decide something is "needed" but the resources and skills required to do it belong to the 49.99% that don't agree?
Thanks from imaginethat and Tony
Nwolfe35 is online now  
Old June 15th, 2014, 09:14 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
Nwolfe35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 14,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
see, I knew we could be buddies.
It is also a government that doesn't promote religion over non religion.
Thanks from Tony, RNG and Sabcat
Nwolfe35 is online now  
Old June 15th, 2014, 09:18 AM   #27
Banned
 
NowhereMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: The South
Posts: 1,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
socialism vs crony capitalism?

straw man, false dichotomy. crony capitalism is socialism.
In a few hours two of the little pinkos went off in left field against my comments with nonsense and BS.
I really hate the commie cheerleaders who won't stop pushing for an evil system that has NEVER worked anywhere.

Get educated, sabcat and beasty.
I suggest y'all start with Plymouth and Jamestown as great lessons in both crony capitalism and socialism.
Yet I doubt either of you will bother and simply keep spouting your sick ideology and call me names for calling it "sick" and "evil".
Ignorant.
NowhereMan is offline  
Old June 15th, 2014, 09:22 AM   #28
Wall-crawler
 
webguy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 14,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nwolfe35 View Post
It is also a government that doesn't promote religion over non religion.
or non-religion over religion, which is more the threat these days.
webguy4 is offline  
Old June 15th, 2014, 09:32 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
Nwolfe35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 14,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by webguy4 View Post
or non-religion over religion, which is more the threat these days.
Really?

Where is government pushing non religion over religion?
Nwolfe35 is online now  
Old June 15th, 2014, 09:44 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
imaginethat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Western Slope, Colorado
Posts: 53,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beasty View Post
Unfourtunately you have the wrong definition of Communism. Actual Communism is stateless, classless, and currency-less; there is no government, bank notes or working+rich class in real Communism. Granted, that is a ways off, nobody knows that better than those who advocate it, but Rome wasn't built in a day. I'll likely be long dead before something like that ever becomes a viable option.

You are fair in saying that giving a small elite totalitarian power can eventually lead to opressive regimes- and that was one of the major faults of "Communist States" (actually they were authoritarian socialisms and stalinisims). No level headed socialist that I know of is promoting a Stalinism, it's disengenious to say so. Rather many, myself included, advocate a transparent democratic socialism with welfare statist policies. Completely transparent, public voted + funded publicised (rather than privatized) industries well regulated for the good of society and completely removed from the profit motive.
Here's the unaddressed problem: human nature.

One thing the Bible gets right, human beings do indeed have a tendency to "sin," i.e. do the wrong thing. Put some power into a human's hands, and the odds of him or her doing the wrong thing begin to escalate.

"Fix" human nature, and socialism would work, as would capitalism or communism. Education helps to "fix" human nature, but it's far from 100 percent effective, is a decades-long process, and as the news confirms repeatedly all it takes is a few bad apples to spoil the bushel.

The enemy of Liberty and Freedom isn't capitalism. It's the world banking cartel and its system of fractional banking which gives it total control over both business and government, and ultimately, people.
Thanks from sites, Tony, Polari and 1 others
imaginethat is offline  
Reply

  Defending The Truth Political Forum > Political Forum > Political Ideologies > Socialism

Tags
delusional, evil, socialism, wrong



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
John McCain; Delusional Stay-The-Course Hissy-Fit.... Medicine Man Current Events 15 June 13th, 2014 11:58 AM
Get your fake 'pause' off me, you damn delusional deniers klaatu Current Events 93 February 19th, 2014 12:03 PM
Martin Timothy's Delusional World leighredf Conspiracy Theories 3 February 17th, 2010 01:44 PM
Dieting & Ideology: Delusional Duality? coberst Philosophy 0 April 15th, 2009 11:29 AM
Socialism is Socialism Nwolfe35 Socialism 20 September 13th, 2008 09:01 AM


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2013 Defending The Truth. All rights reserved.